"The talk of forgiving Aamer, Asif and Butt is wrong"

As Rashid Latif said few days back, I've titled this thread on same statement.

This is what I got from PCB COO Subhan Ahmed in a casual talk with him:

About Spot Fixing issue:
According to him Aamer, Asif, Butt, Kamran Akmal, Malik and one more player (could be Imran Farhat) were under high suspicions by ICC and that's since Younis Khan's captaincy. He said ICC completely informed PCB about the questionable activities of these individuals including their meetings with suspicious individuals at multiple times. Based on this info, PCB formally warned these players about their whereabouts, and put all of them under surveillance. These players however didn't refrain from it and continue meeting with individuals upon which PCB launched it's own investigation in the midst of PAK tour of AUS. Also it was brought to PCBs attention by then captain MoYo that he was suspecting that certain players were underperforming and aren't committed 100% to Pakistan Cricket. This investigation was launched along with the other investigation regarding disciplinary breach by Pakistani players in which news came out about Quranic oath and revolt against YK's captaincy. PCB had proof of involvement of these 6 players in wrongdoings or at least suspicious activities in AUS series, Asia cup, T20 WC and then in ENG series.PCB scrutinized the matter of Aamer caught using cell phone in the dressing room during Asia cup, which was later swept under the carpet by team management.

When NOTW broke the story, PCB was unaware that ICC itself is running it's own investigation on the issue and got the same proof against 6 players as PCB have. PCB's policy was to go circumvent about it and save players career by reprimanding them seriously, may be even dropping them from team for couple of tours. But ICC went bizerk on PCB when it found out that PCB all along has all the information regarding the involvement of these players. That's why Haroon Lorgat gave a cold shoulder to PCB and Ijaz Butt for not acting appropriately against these individuals. In his defense, PCB has to understand the value of players because all were superstar performers for Pakistan, and PCB's utmost interest was to save them from any punishment at all.

Now any of these five saying that they were never involved is total BS. PCB knows it very well about the involvement of them. ICC doesn't have enough proof against Malik and Akmal hence they kind of gotten away from it, even though their removal from team is more than enough to understand their involvement in the matter. Aamer wasn't a kid dealing with all these bookies. He did stuff on his own as well as on the wishes of other senior players. The common understanding that he was played by Salman Butt was completely wrong.

PCB stance on Salman Butt:
Salman Butt was the only player in recent times PCB has heavily invested in. PCB eyed his talent at a very young age, and based on his grooming PCB nurtured him to take over Pakistan's captaincy one day. He was from a very well educated background, schooled @ beaconhouse system etc. PCB made him captain at U-16, U-19, U-21 and A-team and put him under the wings of senior players to have him understand the intricacies of game at a very young age. Though he showed that he wasn't as perfect of a batsman at times but last two years, he improved greatly and solidify himself as the only proper opener Pakistan got since Saeed and Amir Sohail. PCB has even grandeur plans for Salman Butt, and initially Afridi was never PCB's choice to take over captaincy. After YK PCB was always willing to make him captain but his bad run of form came in his way.

Involvement of him in this matter was the biggest shock for PCB, and more than anything else. A player PCB has invested so much in, it was hard for them to digest that he could've fallen for such trap. Hence, PCB warned him severely and through different channels as well to stop, and cut away from all his extra-cricketing involvements. But he didn't. He continue meeting with Mazhar Majeed and Azhar Majeed. He was part of the lobby also who stood against YK. PCB has up to date info on all his involvement and when the NOTW fiasco surfaced it was only practical for PCB to cut ties with him. Whether he was the main culprit who instigate Asif and Aamer, it may not be true but he has his involvements. The other thing is the circumstantial evidence. It may not be enough against Salman Butt, but PCB has completely taken hands off his case.

On Aamer's rehabilitation:
After Spot fixing verdict, PCB zeroed in Aamer as the player who has most potential future value for PCB. PCB hence went on with plans to negotiate his return to cricket with ICC. (I personally was strictly against it and think that this is another unprofessional stance of PCB, if a player is guilty and you have proof of his involvement then law should be the same for everyone be it 18 years old or 38 years old. But anyways...). Aamer was involved and was well aware of what he was doing that morning of Lord's test. Whether he had conversation with Salman Butt or not it's debatable but PCB has proof of his involvement in prior incidences as well. Hence he didn't commit the crime in ignorance. The plea deal by Aamer was also a part of negotiation process between PCB and ICC. Had Aamer not given a plea deal, there is no way ICC has soften it's stance against him.

On Younis Khan:
Younis Khan is a great cricketer and has been a great find for Pakistan after MoYo. But the guy has sever inferiority complex. He came from a very underprivileged background and has really fought his way to Pakistan team. He is the right hand of Rashid Latif and Rashid coming out with blunt stance against trio has to do with info given to him by YK. YK issue with PCB has to do with this matter as well, where YK was extremely unhappy that PCB didn't hold players accountable for their involvement in wrong matters. Also because of his inferiority complex and short temper, he always lashes out at players and team management and threaten to quit team and captaincy if things aren't allowed to go his way. Multiple times he blamed that his background is the reason why he was treated that way. PCB invested in him as well to take over charge as the future captain but Ijaz Butt always put a bad manager on him, someone who is close to Ijaz Butt but who always ends up feuding with YK. YK wasn't given liberty in selection and unlike his preference PCB kept on interfering in tour selection and starting XIs through managers. Due to his short temper, YK didn't have many friends in the team either who could've backed him when players revolted against him.

The players who were never involved in Spot Fixing:
This is not new. He named Shahid Afridi, Younis Khan and Shoaib Akhtar as athlete who though had given PCB headaches at multiple occasions but were never ever involved in this matter. In fact, PCB persuade Afridi and Shoaib Akhtar to hold private meetings with other involved players to cut their activities, and to warn them that PCB has all information about their involvement. But players started thinking themselves to big to be reproached. Faction was already in team and certain players were against presence of Afridi, Shoaib Akhtar and YK presence in team. That's why favoritism was played upon and players who were close to YK and Afridi were shown exit door due to PCB's interference in selection matters.

On Shahid Afridi:
Shahid Afridi is too big of a star for himself. He has too much of a star power to be handled by PCB. PCB alone cannot handle Shahid Afridi and that's why he has been such a belligerent horse at times. There should be three or four boards to handle Afridi. The popularity also gets to his head and he doesn't cater anyone from PCB at all. He was subservient to the prior boards under Tauqeer Zia and Shahriar Ahmed but he completely went belligerent against Ijaz Butt. He went at odds with PCB on YK issue and since then relations started turning worse between PCB and him. He was never a choice to be the captain, he was never favored by anyone in PCB quarters. But after MoYo's dismissal and fiasco with Shoaib Malik, Afridi was the only choice left who can control the team. Hence, PCB unlike there wishes made him captain. But Ijaz Butt regime never liked him.

Dedicated to PM.

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kya bood-o-bash poocho ho purab ke sakino! hum ko gareeb jan ke, hans hans pukar ke...
jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -

wow, thanks for that

proves the assertion that our team is a bunch of divas who regard themselves as Gods gift to mankind. no humility left in the team it seems.

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@Ahmed/

Thanks man for the info. Lot to debate abt it how abt brand new thread?

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do it.

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kya bood-o-bash poocho ho purab ke sakino! hum ko gareeb jan ke, hans hans pukar ke...
jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -

This has shaken me. I was in disbelief after that talk. But reality is mostly bitter than you expect.

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kya bood-o-bash poocho ho purab ke sakino! hum ko gareeb jan ke, hans hans pukar ke...
jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -

ahmad let me know if you want to chage the title, it might confuse ppl as there is another thread with this same title. i was thinking something like what cyborg suggested in the other thread.

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yeah do it, how ever you think is more appropriate.

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kya bood-o-bash poocho ho purab ke sakino! hum ko gareeb jan ke, hans hans pukar ke...
jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -

I was huge fan of YK, when he was vice captain and still fan of his test batting. Pak finaly had a succession plan, YK was groomed for long time and when he was made vice captain lot of ppl didnt think was good idea yet PCB and management persisted and inzi ensure that YK got all exposure what YK did post inzi was ok once but not twice, I don't know if he has inferiority complex but he is not mentally stable to lead pakistan,

Regarding Salman Butt, PCB should have removed him, after grooming a guy so long and then coming to know his connection which when advised he refused to severe should have been clear indication, fault lies with PCB equally.

Afridi is a freaking Star he brings crowd in and he is da boom boom his stance was right under Ijaz Butt, while ijaz did succeed in breaking player power he went overboard by making players feel like crap.

Aamir barely had couple of yrs in team someone must have shown him ways, i will even grant pcb that aamir did more then his share and he is not that innocent point again remains someone showed him way and someone enouraged and allowed him to do this. It is right decision to have him rehablitated and be brought back in team. EWveryone deserve 2nd chance.

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we would have been a different team if PCB had taken stance with YK at that time..

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::::::::::::PASTHUN ROCKS:::::::::
" SIMPLICITY IS THE BEST POLICY"

so should we give second chance to Salman Butt as well? He has a spotless career before, and one which was heading upward.

surely we can't have different law for different individuals.

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kya bood-o-bash poocho ho purab ke sakino! hum ko gareeb jan ke, hans hans pukar ke...
jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -

not same thing Salman butt was involved 4 long time, now aamir case is diff, he came in 2009 T20, barely a yr later his career is over. He was barely 18 when he started his career as soon he turned 18 he was convicted. Butt on the other hand we finding out as per this report was informed repeatedly and over a long period of time.

I have deliberately not mentioned asif for simple reason I think his conviction was wrong, plz not never saying he was guilty or innocent just that there wasnt enuff proof to convict him.

As a whole i don't think criminal convictions were warranted boards should have banned trio or ICC.

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NOPE. Both were equally reprimanded time and again. May be I forgot to mention, but PCB reprimanded every player involved because there sole purpose was to save their careers. They even brought Afridi and Akhtar to stop the players. Aamer was in complete control of his actions as was told to me. You also have to remember Butt doesn't even have a single disciplinary violations under his name, his case is similar to that of Aamer. After finding this out I am not in favor of giving Aamer any advantage of age either, because a crime is committed by him where he was in full control of his actions.

I wish I had asked about his relation and involvement with that Mr. Ali of UAE who he mentioned in his sky sports interview. I would like to know what PCB has on that case.

Conviction is a different ordeal because as we are coming to know Salman Butt is claiming (based on verified info from Blackberry labs in Canada) that there were no texting between him and Mazhar Majeed existed. So Butt's conviction is wrong too.

In that way, none of them should have been convicted except those who went with guilty plea.

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kya bood-o-bash poocho ho purab ke sakino! hum ko gareeb jan ke, hans hans pukar ke...
jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -

so that sydney test... akmal with three dropped catches off of hussey, missed run out, and drop of siddle too... match was fixed?

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[QUOTE=PKB;2306646]Naveen is hot n sexy :)[/QUOTE]

wow dude that an awesome read, and thanks alot for it.

about a couple of issues in there, firstly shahid afridi!
he is the one guy that pulls in the crowds. like it or not he is the only star in our limited overs side! that is good and bad. bad cz youngsters like akmal and dandroo shazad look up to his playing style and maybe want to get quick fame by emulating his style. what they forget is that afridi as a package is a great cricketer, his fielding bowling is on point so even when he doesn't score runs he is consistently getting wickets!
What the PCB shouldve done was after yk given him the captaincy and stuck with it. our boards issue has always been they want to break player power which is good, but at the expense of humiliating the players!
that as a fan and person i find unacceptable. the guy who was the culprit was ijaz butt. now the reason i say this is cz of the fact that he appointed captains on a series basis, which is the worst ever decision he could've made. on one hand maybe it gives everybody the feeling that look no one is certain in this team you eff up and your going, but on the other hand when players feel they are not a certain in the team they move on to other means to secure themselves financially.

the thing that the pcb needs to do is inject more money. when you do that people will not look other ways to make money! there are probably hundreds of players in our domestic setup that have no regular source of income, which is really hard for these guys to make ends meet.

as far as aamer coming back. the only sympathy i have (which after his stupid interview on sky isn't that much) is the fact that he walked into an enviroment that was mixed with this fixing bull. otherwise the guy was 18 at the time, probably 20 in reality and of full sane mind. if an 18 year old kills another dude, they are charged as an adult, and this guy should be treated like the rest. salman butt, for some reason i never like he always looked like one of them geezers who think they are above everyone else. even in his interviews n stuff he looked a bit of a proudy. the key is he got banned and players like hafeez and tofee kumar and misbah came back and our team has the best stats since with inzi in 2007. so all's well if it ends well.
as far as asif is concerned, it pains me when i see a talent like him wasted. he will definately not play for pk again and should consider himself lucky if he plays domestic even. the pcb bailed him out when he got caught with nandrone and chars in his wallet and that should've been a wake up call but that guy is like a repeat offender and most likely we won't see him again and that's a shame, he could've been as great as mcgrath and maybe even better!

as far as yk is concerned, i had a feeling he was a bit of a loner since he said in an interview once that you have certain friends and hang around with them more. he said he hung around in the gym most of the time (no wonder he is so fit at his age) and guys with similar interests hang around with him. that being said the whole oath on the quran thing must've felt like a stab in the back and thats when i can understand him quitting the captaincy and stuff. the thing with him was that he was vc under inzi who had alot of say in everything and maybe was expecting the same loyalty from the players and the board but unfortunately didnt get it.

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Shit happens, and then you die!!!

Didn't know that, anyway lemme states what i think (whether someone agree or not its thier choice) banning and subsequent conviction all were done by ICC and england, PCB has no involvement but they agreed to these measures by outsiders since these outsiders were the one who gave 5 yrs bans and incarcerations they deemed it was appropriate sentences, once these senetences are done players have every right to return to game. I don't think Butt or asif will ever come back unless they succeed in appeal. But Aamir has admitted his crime, paid his price and is following what ICC and PCB ask him, once he do things he should be allowed back.

As they say he has paid his debt to society.

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