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Old 09-26-2012, 10:17 PM
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‘CIA sends monthly fax to ISI outlining drone attack plans’

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-New...e-attack-plans

ISLAMABAD: About once a month, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) sends a fax to a general at Pakistan’s intelligence service outlining broad areas where the United States intends to conduct strikes with drone aircraft and Pakistanis, who in public oppose the strikes, don’t respond, US officials have said.

“On this basis, plus the fact that Pakistan continues to clear airspace in the targeted areas, the US government concludes it has tacit consent to conduct strikes within the borders of a sovereign nation,” the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) quoted officials familiar with the programme.

According to the report titled ‘US unease over drone strikes,’ representatives of the White House’s National Security Council and CIA declined to discuss Pakistani consent, saying such information was classified.

According to the WSJ, senior US officials worry about maintaining the support of an important ally – the UK – where officials have begun to express concerns privately about the extent of Pakistan’s consent.

In the early days of the Afghan war, lists of specific individuals to be targeted on Pakistani soil by US drones were approved by both the US and Pakistan, in what was called a “dual-key” system. Starting about four years ago, the US began increasingly to go it alone.

By last year, according to US officials, the system in place was that the CIA would send a regular monthly fax to Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency. The fax would outline the boundaries of the airspace the drones would use — large areas along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border referred to as flight “boxes” because they are shaped like three-dimensional rectangles in the sky. There was no mention of specific targets, the report said.

The ISI would send back a fax acknowledging receipt. The return messages stopped short of endorsing drone strikes. But in US eyes the fax response combined with the continued clearing of airspace to avoid midair collisions – a process known as “de-confliction” – represented Pakistan’s tacit consent to the programme.

After the May 2011 bin Laden raid, which the US did without Pakistani permission or knowledge, the ISI stopped acknowledging receipt of US drone notifications, according to US and Pakistani officials. Replies were stopped on the order of the ISI chief at that time, said an official briefed on the matter. “Not responding was their way of saying ‘we’re upset with you,’” this official said.

The official said the ISI chief chose that option knowing an outright denial of drone permission would spark a confrontation, and also believing that withdrawing consent wouldn’t end the strikes, the WSJ reported.

In public speeches, Obama administration officials have portrayed the US use of drones to kill wanted militants around the world as being on firm legal ground. In these speeches, officials stopped short of directly discussing the CIA’s drone programme in Pakistan because the operations are covert.

Now, the rationale used by the US administration, interpreting Pakistan’s acquiescence as a green light, has set off alarms among some administration legal officials. In particular, lawyers at the State Department, including top legal adviser Harold Koh, believe this rationale veers near the edge of what can be considered permission, though they still think the programme is legal, officials say.

Two senior administration officials described the approach as interpreting Pakistan’s silence as a “yes.” One dubbed the US approach “cowboy behaviour.”

In a reflection of the programme’s long-term legal uncertainty and precedent-setting nature, a group of lawyers in the administration known as “the council of counsels” is trying to develop a more sustainable framework for how governments should use such weapons.

The effort is designed to fend off legal challenges at home as well as to ease allies’ concerns about increasing legal scrutiny from civil-liberties groups and others. The White House also is worried about setting precedents for other countries, including Russia or China, that might conduct targeted killings as such weapons proliferate in the future, officials say.

Because there is little precedent for the classified US drone program, international law doesn’t speak directly to how it might operate. That makes the question of securing consent all the more critical, legal specialists say.

In public, Pakistan has repeatedly expressed opposition to the drone programme, and about 10 months ago closed the CIA’s only drone base in the country. In private, some Pakistani officials say they don’t consider their actions equivalent to providing consent. They say Pakistan has considered shooting down a drone to reassert control over the country’s airspace but shelved the idea as needlessly provocative.

Pakistan also has considered challenging the legality of the programme at the United Nations.“No country and no people have suffered more in the epic struggle against terrorism than Pakistan,” Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari told the UN General Assembly on Tuesday. “Drone strikes and civilian casualties on our territory add to the complexity of our battle for hearts and minds through this epic struggle.”

A former Pakistani official, who remains close to the programme, said Pakistan believes the CIA continues to send notifications for the sole purpose of giving it legal cover. “It is possible Pakistan is playing both sides. Ashley Deeks, a former State Department assistant legal adviser under Mr Koh who is now at the University of Virginia, said a lack of a Pakistani response to US notifications might be a way for Pakistan to meet seemingly contradictory goals — letting the CIA continue using its airspace but also distancing the government of Pakistan from the program, which is deeply unpopular among Pakistanis,” the WSJ reported.

On the international stage, matters are less clear-cut. The unwilling-or-unable doctrine, which was first publicly stated by the George W Bush administration and has been affirmed by the Obama administration, remains open to challenge abroad, legal experts say. Conducting drone strikes in a country against its will could be seen as an act of war, the report said.

Benjamin Wittes, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said the US drone approach in Pakistan is getting closer to the edge. “It doesn’t mean it is illegal, but you are at the margins of what can reasonably be construed as consent,” he said.

Administration lawyers, including those with qualms such as Koh, believe the CIA’s campaign is legal. They believe they have consent, however tacit, primarily because the Pakistani military continues to clear airspace for drones and doesn’t interfere physically with the unpiloted aircraft in flight, according to officials involved with the administration’s legal thinking.

Still, for some US officials, including Koh, the lack of an ISI response to faxes was unnerving, leaving already vague communications even more open to interpretation.

Spurred by concerns about the future of the drone programme in Pakistan, administration lawyers have been considering the feasibility of making changes. One idea calls for putting some of the drones under control of the US military, which would allow officials to talk more openly about how the programme works and open the door to closer cooperation with the Pakistanis, according to US and Pakistani officials.

The US has also considered a coordinated campaign that could involve both US drones and Pakistani F-16 fighter planes, these officials said.

In meetings in Washington last month with the new chief of Pakistan’s ISI, Lt Gen Zahirul Islam, American officials raised the prospect of a “drone drawdown,” according to Pakistani officials. American officials said the idea of ramping down the programme gradually as security conditions permit has been hotly debated for months. Pakistani officials considered the proposal to be “amorphous” and “without detail,” an adviser to Pakistan’s government said.

Americans also raised the prospect of creating “joint ownership” of the drone program, the Pakistani adviser said, but no changes were agreed to.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:17 PM
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Lakhtee lanat ISI and Military pay LOL
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:45 AM
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lo ji karlo gal...
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:40 PM
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:42 PM
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pak government said this news is rubbish . who do you believe ?
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:17 PM
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cyborg why did u open a new thread for this? why not post it in the previous thread where i made it abundantly clear that the fault for drone attacks lay at the feet of pakistani gov't, military, and/or intelligence? do you have anything more poignant to say besides "Lakhtee lanat ISI and Military pay LOL "
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by adil_909 View Post
cyborg why did u open a new thread for this? why not post it in the previous thread where i made it abundantly clear that the fault for drone attacks lay at the feet of pakistani gov't, military, and/or intelligence? do you have anything more poignant to say besides "Lakhtee lanat ISI and Military pay LOL "
Oh untle Pak govt, ISI and military are complicit, but the guy who plans and pull the trigger is still ur good ole USA, whom u refuse to blame, if u cant get this in ur samajhdani its not my fault.

http://dawn.com/2012/09/28/pakistan-...s-method-khar/

Quote:
NEW YORK: Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar said on Thursday that Pakistan did not disagree with the use of drones to kill militants but could not approve its illegal method.
“What the drones are trying to achieve, we may not disagree. We do not disagree. If they’re going for terrorists — we do not disagree,” she said at a US think-tank in New York.
“But we have to find ways which are lawful, which are legal.”
The use of unilateral strikes on Pakistani territory, she said, was illegal. “It is illegal and it is unlawful.”
The Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday that US policy-makers believed they had Pakistan’s “tacit consent” for the drone strikes which killed some key terrorist leaders.
The foreign minister, when asked to comment on the report, said she would not like to talk about it but her statement apparently confirmed WSJ’s claim
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Last edited by cyborg909; 09-27-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sallu View Post
pak government said this news is rubbish . who do you believe ?
If u read WSG report they never explicitly said Yes, but they neither said no, true to desi culture like dulhan of old times at nikah

I think the original deal under Musharraf was CIA would let us know and on high value targets would be targetted, this was the understanding, Obama changed that and went unilateral, hence all the phadda, PAF chairaman and military sources have openly stated in NA security breifings they have capacity to strike the drones down, but then is the govt ready for subsequent open warfare? which is ofcoz a legit qts Obama made it clear during compaign and post presidency he wants the war expanded into Pakistan, Pak knowing that don't really have much choice either play along and get back some other way or goes with open confrontation. If the original agreement had followed as it did under Bush I don't think you would have seen so much protests and so much lives lost, but since its Obama admin, who have literally been in my opinion worst then bush (if that was possible) when it came to foreign policy, has worsened the situation by indiscriminate and increased drone attacks. The most retard aspect was under Obama admin, drone intelligence gathered could label someone a terrorist from high sky and then anyone standing close to that person is also terrorist plus any male of fighting age from high sky is enemy. Talk abt retard ass policy.

Oh BTW it still doesn't absolve the govt (i,e govt, military etec) from blame they have failed at minimum and accessory to murder at max.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cyborg909 View Post
Oh untle Pak govt, ISI and military are complicit, but the guy who plans and pull the trigger is still ur good ole USA, whom u refuse to blame, if u cant get this in ur samajhdani its not my fault.

Pakistan endorses drones, rejects method: Khar | DAWN.COM

[/COLOR]
yup you are right, i do not blame US to any great degree. sure i do a little because innocent people are dying but i blame us pakistanis much more. reason for that is simple. each country looks after its own interests, thats the whole point of being a country. US is looking after its interests by going after people they think will try to harm their country. pakistan is failing to protect its interests by allowing the US to do this. so why should i blame the US, they are simply looking after their interests and we are not looking after ours? there must be an explanation for why we are not doing anything about it, maybe the leadership has been bribed so that instead of looking after pak interests they are instead looking after their own personal interests if they comply with US demands. alas, that's the truth of it. if there is some fool running a shop and he is having a "buy one get 10 free offer" and thus going out of business because of it, who do you blame, the idiot who made this policy or the people who take advantage of it??
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by adil_909 View Post
yup you are right, i do not blame US to any great degree. sure i do a little because innocent people are dying but i blame us pakistanis much more. reason for that is simple. each country looks after its own interests, thats the whole point of being a country. US is looking after its interests by going after people they think will try to harm their country. pakistan is failing to protect its interests by allowing the US to do this. so why should i blame the US, they are simply looking after their interests and we are not looking after ours? there must be an explanation for why we are not doing anything about it, maybe the leadership has been bribed so that instead of looking after pak interests they are instead looking after their own personal interests if they comply with US demands. alas, that's the truth of it. if there is some fool running a shop and he is having a "buy one get 10 free offer" and thus going out of business because of it, who do you blame, the idiot who made this policy or the people who take advantage of it??
Ur argument would have been valid if it not for a fact that Pak and US have a partnership, where pak allows certain things for certain purposes. US has violated that agreement hence the clarification today where FM Hina Rabbani (once again impressive) laid it out as plainly as she could, we agreed to the objective not means.

2nd point, which makes ur argument invalid, the drones attack are not helping US as the report has clearly outlined.

Once again, u fling accusations just to hide the the crimes against humanity by USA.
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