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Old 09-24-2012, 08:43 PM
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Drone attacks in Pakistan are counterproductive, says report

Drone attacks in Pakistan are counterproductive, says report | World news | The Guardian

The CIA's programme of "targeted" drone killings in Pakistan's tribal heartlands is politically counterproductive, kills large numbers of civilians and undermines respect for international law, according to a report by US academics.

The study by Stanford and New York universities' law schools, based on interviews with victims, witnesses and experts, blames the US president, Barack Obama, for the escalation of "signature strikes" in which groups are selected merely through remote "pattern of life" analysis.

Families are afraid to attend weddings or funerals, it says, in case US ground operators guiding drones misinterpret them as gatherings of Taliban or al-Qaida militants.

"The dominant narrative about the use of drones in Pakistan is of a surgically precise and effective tool that makes the US safer by enabling 'targeted killings' of terrorists, with minimal downsides or collateral impacts. This narrative is false," the report, entitled Living Under Drones, states.

The authors admit it is difficult to obtain accurate data on casualties "because of US efforts to shield the drone programme from democratic accountability, compounded by obstacles to independent investigation of strikes in North Waziristan".

The "best available information", they say, is that between 2,562 and 3,325 people have been killed in Pakistan between June 2004 and mid-September this year – of whom between 474 and 881 were civilians, including 176 children. The figures have been assembled by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, which estimated that a further 1,300 individuals were injured in drone strikes over that period.

The report was commissioned by and written with the help of the London-based Reprieve organisation, which is supporting action in the British courts by Noor Khan, a Pakistani whose father was killed by a US drone strike in March 2011. His legal challenge alleges the UK is complicit in US drone strikes because GCHQ, the eavesdropping agency, shares intelligence with the CIA on targets for drone strikes.

"US drones hover 24 hours a day over communities in north-west Pakistan, striking homes, vehicles, and public spaces without warning," the American law schools report says.

"Their presence terrorises men, women, and children, giving rise to anxiety and psychological trauma among civilian communities. Those living under drones have to face the constant worry that a deadly strike may be fired at any moment, and the knowledge that they are powerless to protect themselves.

"These fears have affected behaviour. The US practice of striking one area multiple times, and evidence that it has killed rescuers, makes both community members and humanitarian workers afraid or unwilling to assist injured victims."

The study goes on to say: "Publicly available evidence that the strikes have made the US safer overall is ambiguous at best … The number of 'high-level' militants killed as a percentage of total casualties is extremely low – estimated at just 2% [of deaths]. Evidence suggests that US strikes have facilitated recruitment to violent non-state armed groups, and motivated further violent attacks … One major study shows that 74% of Pakistanis now consider the US an enemy."

Coming from American lawyers rather than overseas human rights groups, the criticisms are likely to be more influential in US domestic debates over the legality of drone warfare.

"US targeted killings and drone strike practices undermine respect for the rule of law and international legal protections and may set dangerous precedents," the report says, questioning whether Pakistan has given consent for the attacks.

"The US government's failure to ensure basic transparency and accountability in its targeted killings policies, to provide details about its targeted killing programme, or adequately to set out the legal factors involved in decisions to strike hinders necessary democratic debate about a key aspect of US foreign and national security policy.

"US practices may also facilitate recourse to lethal force around the globe by establishing dangerous precedents for other governments. As drone manufacturers and officials successfully reduce export control barriers, and as more countries develop lethal drone technologies, these risks increase."

The report supports the call by Ben Emmerson QC, the UN's special rapporteur on countering terrorism, for independent investigations into deaths from drone strikes and demands the release of the US department of justice memorandums outlining the legal basis for US targeted killings in Pakistan.
The report highlights the switch from the former president George W Bush's practice of targeting high-profile al-Qaida personalities to the reliance, under Obama's administration, of analysing patterns of life on the ground to select targets.

"According to US authorities, these strikes target 'groups of men who bear certain signatures, or defining characteristics associated with terrorist activity, but whose identities aren't known'," the report says. "Just what those 'defining characteristics' are has never been made public." People in North Waziristan are now afraid to attend funerals or other gatherings, it suggests.

Fears that US agents pay informers to attach electronic tags to the homes of suspected militants in Pakistan haunt the tribal districts, according to the study. "[In] Waziristan … residents are gripped by rumours that paid CIA informants have been planting tiny silicon-chip homing devices that draw the drones.
"Many of the Waziris interviewed spoke of a constant fear of being tagged with a chip by a neighbour or someone else who works for either Pakistan or the US, and of the fear of being falsely accused of spying by local Taliban."

Reprieve's director, Clive Stafford Smith, said: "An entire region is being terrorised by the constant threat of death from the skies. Their way of life is collapsing: kids are too terrified to go to school, adults are afraid to attend weddings, funerals, business meetings, or anything that involves gathering in groups.
"George Bush wanted to create a global 'war on terror' without borders, but it has taken Obama's drone war to achieve his dream."
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:51 PM
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i don't hold US responsible whatsoever. there is no way drone attacks in pakistan are possible unless they have gotten clearance either from pak government, pak armed forces, or pak intelligence. they are the ones that should be sought out for an explanation. however regardless of who is responsible, the drones have definitely changed pakistani society esp in KP and bordering regions. it's been going on for so long that it seems like part of life now which is just sad. i don't have high expectations from pak government, but seriously, show me one other country in the world whose government makes secret agreements with other countries to carry out attacks within their borders?
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:00 PM
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i don't hold US responsible whatsoever. there is no way drone attacks in pakistan are possible unless they have gotten clearance either from pak government, pak armed forces, or pak intelligence. they are the ones that should be sought out for an explanation. however regardless of who is responsible, the drones have definitely changed pakistani society esp in KP and bordering regions. it's been going on for so long that it seems like part of life now which is just sad. i don't have high expectations from pak government, but seriously, show me one other country in the world whose government makes secret agreements with other countries to carry out attacks within their borders?
Then u guys wonder why no one listens to u. They are the one killing forget all adult killing, the number of children killed, even one is inexcuasable.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:26 AM
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The study goes on to say: "Publicly available evidence that the strikes have made the US safer overall is ambiguous at best … The number of 'high-level' militants killed as a percentage of total casualties is extremely low – estimated at just 2% [of deaths]. Evidence suggests that US strikes have facilitated recruitment to violent non-state armed groups, and motivated further violent attacks … One major study shows that 74% of Pakistanis now consider the US an enemy."
One of the main reason why sucuide bombing started in a country with no such history of suicuidail attacks before.

Imran Khan had been saying this since 2004 but unfortunately people called him taliban khan, terroist Khan, extremist, fundamentalist. But no one is called the journalist in this article a taliban khan ? Or maybe when a gorra opens his mouth piece then it feels like God is sending his revelation down ? Hyprocrisy Galore ?

But its good at least one person in western media is pointing this issue out and maybe more journalist will see the wisdom as well.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:04 AM
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Drones in Pakistan traumatise civilians, US report says

I have taken a screenshot from the above article. This screenshot is the part in the article which i think is very horrendenous and equates to war crimes: The killing of innocent people.



BBC News - Drones in Pakistan traumatise civilians, US report says
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:08 AM
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Another section from the same article, which again I feel is heneious murder of innocent peopleby drone operators and their supporters.



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Old 09-25-2012, 02:11 AM
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Drones: the west's new terror campaign

The CIA's Predator drones are bringing to Pakistan the same horror that Hitler's doodlebugs inflicted on London

By Clive Stafford Smith.

Drones: the west's new terror campaign | Clive Stafford Smith | Comment is free | The Guardian
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:18 AM
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From the same above article written by clive stafford smith. Link is given in the post above.

Quote:
So little changes. Current RAF doctrine tells us, euphemistically, how "the psychological impact of air power, from the presence of a UAV [unmanned aerial vehicle] to the noise generated by an approaching attack helicopter, has often proved to be extremely effective in exerting influence …" Perhaps they mean "terror", as described by David Rohde, a former New York Times journalist kidnapped and held by the Taliban for months in Waziristan. Rohde, quoted in Living Under Drones, describes the fear the drones inspired in ordinary civilians: "The drones were terrifying. From the ground, it is impossible to determine who or what they are tracking as they circle overhead. The buzz of a distant propeller is a constant reminder of imminent death."

I hope that this report reminds us all what the US – with British support – is doing to the people of Pakistan. Maybe then there will be less surprise at the hatred the drone war is engendering in the Islamic world – and a chance that we will reconsider what we are doing.
So they are killing innocent people just to exert their influence ??? How shameful and filthy is that ! Totally disgusted by american and british mindset. Beygahrtee aour beaysharmee kee waqee meay koyee haad nahi hoti
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:45 AM
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Why Are CIA Drones Still Causing the Death of Innocents in Pakistan?


By Clive Stafford Smith
Posted: 25/09/2012 00:00

Clive Stafford Smith is a US lawyer and the founder and Director of legal action charity Reprieve

Clive Stafford Smith: Why Are CIA Drones Still Causing the Death of Innocents in Pakistan?

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Old 09-25-2012, 12:06 PM
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Then u guys wonder why no one listens to u. They are the one killing forget all adult killing, the number of children killed, even one is inexcuasable.
i beg to differ that nobody listens to me, in fact it's you that's being ridiculed left and right on every thread these days. and it's no wonder you took one line out of context and didn't read the rest of the post but i think that's what is known on here as a "classic cyborg move". that, and also coming up with conspiracy theories, and pointing out how the rest of the world is just as bad as pakistan, and making excuses left and right for atrocities committed in pakistan. you know, all classic cyborg moves!

regarding this thread, anyone that thinks that pakistan has not approved drone attacks on some level, whether gov't, military, or intelligence, must be the most naive person on the galaxy. wake up and smell the coffee folks. we have no respect for our own people and then people are upset when the us and british forces are murdering us like insects.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:35 PM
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didn't need a bloody study to show that...common sense should have told em that...specially after they bombed pakistani soldiers....on more than one occasion....
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:20 PM
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i beg to differ that nobody listens to me, in fact it's you that's being ridiculed left and right on every thread these days. and it's no wonder you took one line out of context and didn't read the rest of the post but i think that's what is known on here as a "classic cyborg move". that, and also coming up with conspiracy theories, and pointing out how the rest of the world is just as bad as pakistan, and making excuses left and right for atrocities committed in pakistan. you know, all classic cyborg moves!

regarding this thread, anyone that thinks that pakistan has not approved drone attacks on some level, whether gov't, military, or intelligence, must be the most naive person on the galaxy. wake up and smell the coffee folks. we have no respect for our own people and then people are upset when the us and british forces are murdering us like insects.
Oh the irony LOL if u have taken ur advise and read I meant u liberals not being listened in pakistan LOL. whether pakistan allows or not doesn't absolve US from crimes against humanity.

One can't serve two masters - Bible. This is ur dilemma ponder abt this
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:15 PM
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One can't serve two masters - Bible. This is ur dilemma ponder abt this
i only serve one master, same can't be said about those spreading hatred, violence, crime, and fear in pakistan. but i'm still waiting for the day we as pakistanis stand up and call a spade a spade.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:19 PM
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Oh the irony LOL if u have taken ur advise and read I meant u liberals not being listened in pakistan LOL.
and seriously, what issue do you have with liberals? i have huge huge problems with the way you think. but sadly, you represent the point of views that are held by most pakistanis on most of the issues. you are a quintessential pakistani. whatever ahmad, i, and others who are desire more progressive thinking are saying is not mainstream pakistani viewpoint, but that's what makes it so difficult. however, you keep trying to make it sound like everyone thinks like us which is completely false. majority of pakistanis think like you, believe in conspiracies, get defensive whenever pakistan is accused, make hundreds of excuses for crimes committed under the name of islam, blame everyone from raw to cia to idf and the list goes on for the mess we find ourselves in except for other pakistanis. you are the mainstream viewpoint, so please stop saying "oh you liberals this" or "oh you liberals that". we represent a tiny minority that expects better things from our country, while you represent the mediocrity that is plaguing pakistan for decades.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:21 PM
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i only serve one master, same can't be said about those spreading hatred, violence, crime, and fear in pakistan. but i'm still waiting for the day we as pakistanis stand up and call a spade a spade.
Oh phuleeeze standard BS response its the other side, u can't blame US for crime against humanity and ur response is other side spreading hatred vlah blah, so what even if u right that other side is doing how that absolve US from crimes against humanity?

Pakistanis standing alright no thanks to you guys. U can't serve two masters i,e having 2 citizenships and being loyal to two countries.

BS response so one side doing the crime its ok for other side to do it. Pakistani been calling spade a spade, 75% pakistani now think US is enemy no.1 I would say overwhleming majority, NO?
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