PakMusic - The Pure Pakistani Forums | Pakistani Music Movies Dramas Desi Forums
 
 
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 09:19 PM
cyborg909's Avatar
General Musharraf
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 20,683
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 155 Total
cyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond repute
Girl of 10 can choose to convert from Judaism to Christianity, judge rules

Girl of 10 can choose to convert from Judaism to Christianity, judge rules - Telegraph

The schoolgirl’s divorced parents were “at war” over her desire to be baptised at the church her father, himself a convert, now attends. But at the end of an unusual case a judge has ruled that she is mature enough to choose her religion, and alongside his judgment wrote a personal letter to the girl explaining his decision.

Judge John Platt said to her: “Sometimes parents simply cannot agree on what is best for their child, but they can’t both be right. Your father thinks it is right for you to be baptised as a Christian now. Your mother wants you to wait until you are older, so they have asked me to decide for them. That is my job.”

In the letter, made public alongside the ruling handed down at Romford County Court in Essex, he went on: “My job is to decide simply what is best for you and I have decided that the best thing for you is that you are allowed to start your baptism classes as soon as they can be arranged and that you are baptised as a Christian as soon as your minister feels you are ready.” But the judge stressed that it did not mean the girl would lose her Jewish heritage and concluded: “Finally, and this is the most important thing, both your mother and father will carry on loving you just as much whatever happens about your baptism.”

The court heard that the girl, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was born in late 2001 to Jewish parents and grandparents. But her mother and father divorced in 2010 and she, and her younger brother, now live for a week at a time with each under a shared parenting agreement.

Her father converted to Christianity after the breakdown of his marriage.

In November the girl’s mother, without telling anyone, applied for a court order forbidding the father from baptising or confirming her into the Christian faith. The judge heard evidence before deciding how to respond to the application.

The father claimed the family had never been strictly observant Jews, and neither of his children grew up with any strong religious beliefs.

He said his daughter told him on the way back from an evangelical Christian festival that she had “experienced an encounter with God”. He added that he was initially sceptical as he thought she was just “on a high”. The father also said he was “unhappy” when the girl went behind his back to talk to a Sunday school teacher about being baptised.

For her part, the mother claimed her former husband prevented the girl from practising Judaism and said she wanted her daughter to wait until she turned 16 to become baptised. The girl’s grandparents accused her father of forcing her to give up her Jewish heritage, while a rabbi told the court that it would be “unnatural to their soul” to make a child change religion. The judge was scathing about these claims, saying that neither the mother nor the grandparents had made “any real effort” to consider what was best for the girl while the rabbi’s letter was made in “inflammatory terms without any supporting evidence”.

The judge said it was “wholly wrong” for the mother to go to court without discussing it with the father or his priest.

He concluded that he had no power to order the girl’s baptism, but dismissed the application to stop it happening.
__________________
My Blog: http://www.sohnidhurti.com
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 09:20 PM
cyborg909's Avatar
General Musharraf
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 20,683
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 155 Total
cyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond repute
Very interesting case to say the least, so he cant order her but cant stop her if she wants, basically saying 10 yr old is mature enough to make the choice hmmmmz.
__________________
My Blog: http://www.sohnidhurti.com
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 09:24 PM
maverick86's Avatar
General Musharraf
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,622
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 77 Total
maverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud of
^there is an important fact here....the girl's father was already a convert...so with a parent being in a different religion....that she wants to convert to...the girl at least has someone who is likely to have her 'best interests' at heart....and later on...if she chooses to go back to judaism...i doubt she'd be declared apostate and murdered....if she chose us though....and went back.....bye bye little girl..
__________________
SPARTANSSSS!!!!!! EAT HEARTY, FOR TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELLLLLLLL!!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 09:57 PM
cyborg909's Avatar
General Musharraf
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 20,683
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 155 Total
cyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick86 View Post
^there is an important fact here....the girl's father was already a convert...so with a parent being in a different religion....that she wants to convert to...the girl at least has someone who is likely to have her 'best interests' at heart....and later on...if she chooses to go back to judaism...i doubt she'd be declared apostate and murdered....if she chose us though....and went back.....bye bye little girl..
Whether she can rivert back or not is not the issue. I would humbly suggest that we stay on topic, it has nothing to do with religion or islam as court is in UK and it is a secular court.

This case is very interesting, both parents were jews when they married and the child was born, so post dvorce one decided to convert and one decided not to. The divorce and relationship wasn't freindly hence the sitautaion, so when the wife married a person of her faith her expectation was to raise family in same faith, yet thats not been the case and most imp. is 10 yr of age enough to make informed decisions?
__________________
My Blog: http://www.sohnidhurti.com
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 10:03 PM
maverick86's Avatar
General Musharraf
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,622
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 77 Total
maverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyborg909 View Post
Whether she can rivert back or not is not the issue. I would humbly suggest that we stay on topic, it has nothing to do with religion or islam as court is in UK and it is a secular court.

This case is very interesting, both parents were jews when they married and the child was born, so post dvorce one decided to convert and one decided not to. The divorce and relationship wasn't freindly hence the sitautaion, so when the wife married a person of her faith her expectation was to raise family in same faith, yet thats not been the case and most imp. is 10 yr of age enough to make informed decisions?
I dont agree with the judge's decision, but I doubt he would have decided that...if her biological father wasn't part of the religion she wanted to practice...
that is the thing though...its a secular court.....and it can allow conversion from one religion to another....this is more a child welfare case than a strictly religious debate though.
__________________
SPARTANSSSS!!!!!! EAT HEARTY, FOR TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELLLLLLLL!!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 10:23 PM
cyborg909's Avatar
General Musharraf
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 20,683
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 155 Total
cyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick86 View Post
I dont agree with the judge's decision, but I doubt he would have decided that...if her biological father wasn't part of the religion she wanted to practice...
that is the thing though...its a secular court.....and it can allow conversion from one religion to another....this is more a child welfare case than a strictly religious debate though.
but he has not decided he has allowed a 10yr old gal to decide, no? U do remember this case

LHC hands over girl to French mother - thenews.com.pk

__________________
My Blog: http://www.sohnidhurti.com
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 10:29 PM
maverick86's Avatar
General Musharraf
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,622
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 77 Total
maverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud ofmaverick86 has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyborg909 View Post
but he has not decided he has allowed a 10yr old gal to decide, no? U do remember this case

LHC hands over girl to French mother - thenews.com.pk

boss...bohat farq hai....the dude took the child away from the mother to a different country....in the case we are discussing, the mother will still have access to the child....you are comparing apples to oranges...
__________________
SPARTANSSSS!!!!!! EAT HEARTY, FOR TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELLLLLLLL!!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 10:34 PM
cyborg909's Avatar
General Musharraf
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 20,683
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 155 Total
cyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick86 View Post
boss...bohat farq hai....the dude took the child away from the mother to a different country....in the case we are discussing, the mother will still have access to the child....you are comparing apples to oranges...
the 11 yr old gal didn't want to stay with mom, so its same point and the father and gal offered that mom can visit and she can visit too, yet was handed over to mom ripping her away from the father.
__________________
My Blog: http://www.sohnidhurti.com
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 12:45 AM
adil_909's Avatar
His Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the hospital
Posts: 15,742
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 143 Total
adil_909 has a reputation beyond reputeadil_909 has a reputation beyond reputeadil_909 has a reputation beyond reputeadil_909 has a reputation beyond reputeadil_909 has a reputation beyond reputeadil_909 has a reputation beyond reputeadil_909 has a reputation beyond reputeadil_909 has a reputation beyond reputeadil_909 has a reputation beyond reputeadil_909 has a reputation beyond reputeadil_909 has a reputation beyond repute
some children qualify for emancipated minors - essentially saying that even as children they have rights to make decisions for themselves. of note, any teenager who is a parent automatically becomes an emancipated minor. however in order to get pregnant you first have to be menstruating which doesn't occur in most girls until 12 or 13. you can get this status in other circumstances as well. however, its really strange that the judge can rule that this 10yo can decide what is best for themselves. would the judge rule the same way if the kid had a life threatening illness and refused treatment, but parents wanted him treated?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 01:03 AM
cyborg909's Avatar
General Musharraf
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 20,683
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 155 Total
cyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond reputecyborg909 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by adil_909 View Post
some children qualify for emancipated minors - essentially saying that even as children they have rights to make decisions for themselves. of note, any teenager who is a parent automatically becomes an emancipated minor. however in order to get pregnant you first have to be menstruating which doesn't occur in most girls until 12 or 13. you can get this status in other circumstances as well. however, its really strange that the judge can rule that this 10yo can decide what is best for themselves. would the judge rule the same way if the kid had a life threatening illness and refused treatment, but parents wanted him treated?
very good point I remember we had a case on same exact grounds in US if memory serves me right was jehovah's witness where the minor girl refused treatment and judge ordered otherwise she was 15 i think.
__________________
My Blog: http://www.sohnidhurti.com

Last edited by cyborg909; 08-03-2012 at 06:09 AM.
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 02:53 AM
Sipahi
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 0 Total
halika is on a distinguished road
Cheap Monster Beats and very nice quality Monster Beats just need $69.99
Enjoy the best online shipping experience
Click right now get the discount code!!
Plenty of Monster Beats in stock now
www efeelsports com
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 05:56 AM
Inspecter saab
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 502
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 11 Total
halofreak41 will become famous soon enoughhalofreak41 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick86 View Post
^there is an important fact here....the girl's father was already a convert...so with a parent being in a different religion....that she wants to convert to...the girl at least has someone who is likely to have her 'best interests' at heart....and later on...if she chooses to go back to judaism...i doubt she'd be declared apostate and murdered....if she chose us though....and went back.....bye bye little girl..

Tum yaar hamesha teri baat hi karna. Tum yahin atke raho sari zindagi.
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2012, 06:00 AM
Lahoriii's Avatar
General Musharraf
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: where do u think???
Posts: 12,330
Say 'Thank You!' for this post. = 0 For This Post / 45 Total
Lahoriii has a reputation beyond reputeLahoriii has a reputation beyond reputeLahoriii has a reputation beyond reputeLahoriii has a reputation beyond reputeLahoriii has a reputation beyond reputeLahoriii has a reputation beyond reputeLahoriii has a reputation beyond reputeLahoriii has a reputation beyond reputeLahoriii has a reputation beyond reputeLahoriii has a reputation beyond reputeLahoriii has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by halika View Post
Cheap Monster Beats and very nice quality Monster Beats just need $69.99
Enjoy the best online shipping experience
Click right now get the discount code!!
Plenty of Monster Beats in stock now
www efeelsports com
well said!
__________________
[QUOTE=PKB;2306646]Naveen is hot n sexy :)[/QUOTE]
Say 'Thank You!' for this post.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Key differences in Judaism and Islam? Sarem Religion Forum 26 01-26-2009 07:29 PM
Parents choose prayer over doctors; girl dies Sarmad Halat-e-Hazra - Pakistani, World News & Current Events 13 03-29-2008 03:22 AM
Judge Lets Off Rapist of 10 year old Girl Arslan. Halat-e-Hazra - Pakistani, World News & Current Events 2 06-27-2007 09:18 PM
Christianity and islam Pak_music Religion Forum 15 03-13-2007 10:54 PM
Differences between Islam, Judaism and Christianity [Asad] Religion Forum 8 12-15-2006 06:40 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
 
 
All Rights Reserved © PakMusicForums.com Powered by PakStop.com.