Do you think if the government was to go after all these guys in Karachi that people would oppose this idea in support of MQM and ANP? Would the people of Karachi would create riots?

as a diehard karachiite...i would love nothing more than kick these idiots out....but bhonday tareeqay sai aisa koi kaam hua to these TTP crazies will start suicide bombings in khi.....so this needs to be done surgically and in a well planned manner, which is something that cant be expected of our current leadership....

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what haram thing am i trying to make halal? give me a break! mob justice is halal? pulling shias off a bus and shooting them is halal? declaring people kaafir and then lyching them is halal? islam is an inherently tolerant religion, but its been warped to the point where nobody would believe it.

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what the hell? who is telling you to change islam? please show me where in quran or hadith it says to pull shias out of a bus and murder them? or where it says to be judge jury and executioner and take justice into your own hands? IT DOESN'T! i'm not the one who is trying to make islam fit my lifestyle, it is you who is warping the peaceful and tolerant religion of islam and turning it to a violent religion to satisfy your own twisted version of what is right. in case you have forgotten, murder is gunnah-e-kabeer!! that too during last few days of ramzan! don't forget that!

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ooh bhaymiyaan thande ho ke baat karoo if u wana just go on raving then there is no point,

I asked u a simple qts, I said i agree with u till the idea is killed nothing gonna happen how u propose to do it? Lets leave the rhetoric and raving aside and lets tlk abt what concrete steps could be taken to tackle this menance.

No religion is tolerant ala ur understanding of tolerance, islam is tolerant because it allows ppl free choice they are allowed to personally worship whomever they want and have no fear from islam to impinge on thier pvt lives and religious duties.

Anyway, been saying for a long time, i would love to have a seriouss debate about how to tackle this menance and this terrorism by TTP and allies how to tackle this twisted view of Islam by TTP and allies superheaded by Al-qaeda. So if you interested plz share ur views otherwise no point talking abt same issues.

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i think there needs to be a two-pronged approach. first, i think it is futile unless ulema are on board. murder and vigilante justice is unislamic. suicide bombings are unislamic. ulema have a duty to convince the public of this, and they are failing. secondly, government has to do more to give the young people an outlet for their frustrations. our institutions are so inept that there is extreme amount of frustration. responsibility for this belongs to the government. if these two can get on the same page, then over the course of a few years we can change the mindset that is present in pakistan. but if government remains inept, and ulema remain sympathetic to radical islamic beliefs, then the future is very bleak indeed for pakistan. this is a pivotal point in our history. i can see us turning it around and become a functional nation, but i can also see us becoming a country dominated by fear and persecution.

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But why should Ulema side with govt? The govt has no credibility, whether we use ulema or not or we use secular teachings all would be nothing, to get to the point where masses side with one side in this case the govt, the govt has to be on moral high ground.

To say ulema not doing the job, fatwa after fatwa has declared suicide haram and so on, the reason no one is listening to them is two-fold. 1

1 - The political ulema = who are assumed to be ulema eg, JUI is led by Maualana fazul-ur-rehman who himself doesn''t even have equivalent of masters in Islamic studies and thus can't give fatwa

2 - The steady drumming from ages that ulema = molvi = halwa khoor no knowledge jahil etc etc

A point to be noted, most uleam-e-pakistan bear the main responsiblity for this degradation where there voice is not given credence.

Since the inception of Pakistan we have been arguing among ourselves what are basic fundamentals of state and the debate gets crazier every day with no end in sight.

In conclusion, we have a settled and agreed upon constitution of 1973, for time being and forseeble future it woould be in our best interest to accept it as it is now. Going fwd

1 - A morally better i.e not perfect but a morally better elected govt which at minimum not to be tainted with corruption and has confidence of a majority of populace.

2 - A radical and streamlinning of all mosques and madrassas and schools. with equal syllabus, all khateeb should be paid a handsome salary must have bachelors in islamic studies with relevent degree in contemperory subjects as law, civil administration etc etc where all the sermons would be streamlined with no praises to anyone in khutba.

3 - Khutba-e-jumma must be in original i,e 2 khutabs one in urdu and 2nd half in arabic with bayan removed.

4 - Must military service for all pakistani, irregardless of religion, cast and culture say for 2 yrs as to instill discipline and promote harmony.

This is just for starters. We can always elaborate and add or delete things, what u guys think?

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Hayaat Jurm Na Ho, Zindagi Wabaal Na Ho.

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jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -

aameen sum aameen and same for every person in the whole world and all beings

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I see couple of things very important and that obvioucly depends on Govt. capability as well.

1) The supply lines to the TTP need to be identified. That include both arm supplies, and moral supporters as well. But lets take arm supply first, where you point is valid that border needs to be sealed and there hideouts in Waziristan and whereever they are getting arms should be raided and cleaned out. It's like suppressing a cancer. If you wanna stop its spread, then stop the blood supply. Of course there are Taliban sympathizers in our armed forces as well and it's a big task to spot out those black sheeps and put them on trial, make examples out of them as anyone who goes against the state will be severely dealt. I found out interesting thing about Mehran base attack that actually the issue started from a Mosque at base Faisal, and how Taliban wanted to cease control of that mosque. When they were not successful in that, they threatened Navy and targeted Navy buses which later escalated to attack on base. This simply tells that someone from inside is involved and is leaking info. And I won't be surprised as I knew prior that there is a big number of personnel in armed forces who are extremist sympathizers.

2) Then what adil is talking about killing the extremist mindset is also equally important. The bad thing is in our society there is no standard set for judging the qualification of Aalim or Khateeb. Hence when these people establish Madarsas, they nurture the kids to rise against state and use them for their own henious motives. For that a strict check is needed on spread of Madarsas. It should be tracked by Federal agencies as who is opening the Madarsas and where the funding and affiliation is coming from. Any Madarsa which is build on illegal land or not following the law should be closed down right away. And then spread the real teachings of Islam which taught about tolerance and peace is very important. There should be a strict check on people who do the nit picking of harsh ayahs from Quran and misinterpreting or half interpreting them and twisting them out of context and manipulate the people with them. The social vision of Islam needs to be taught instead of the teachings of rebellion and swords. But again it starts from Religious leaders to take the responsibility of that and stop sympathizing with elements who are at war against our own army.

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kya bood-o-bash poocho ho purab ke sakino! hum ko gareeb jan ke, hans hans pukar ke...
jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -

If u just take on madrassahs then they will have the popular slogan govt doing west bidding against islam blah blah,

I suggest a streamlining of schools, there shall be no madrassah, pvt school, o level etc etc, one syllabus for all and all public schools, this way no one can claim anything, one want to do masters in dars-e-nizami go to govt university, till inter all should be one uniform education, hafiz-e-quarn courses also by govt run institutions.

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you want to place the future of our country, the entire educational system, in the hands of the same people that cannot do even the simplest of tasks properly? this plan has disaster written all over it. there is nothing wrong with the education system per se, there is a good balance between govt schools and private schools. cirriculum is also pretty standardized in these areas. the problem is the madrassahs, many of which are unlicensed and just pop up all over the place, and are run by unqualified people teaching no set curriculum. the answer is not to have the government take over education. it would make more sense for regional education ministers to ensure that a set cirriculum is being taught to all students. maddrasahs need to fall in line with this plan, and if they are teaching anti-state lessons or not giving enough maths/science/literature education then they should be shut down and forced to refund everyones money. issue is, as with most things in pakistan, quality control. but to ensure quality, you need to have a reliable and corruption-free system.
quality leaders-->quality institutions-->quality citizens-->quality lifestyle. simple.

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what one person? Its the education in form of public schools pretty standard everywhere, will need constitutional amendment though cuz they have send it to provinces in last amendments and thats a no no. You cant have regional in pakistan, ANP comes into power they start teaching thier crap, JSSF comes into power they start teaching thier crap, so education curriculum should be on federal level with a national syllabus.

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the key here is to first of all cut the supply line. the ttp are getting funds from somewhere, america india whoever the eff is supplying them with money and weapons, that supply channel needs to be closed down and everyone will fall sideways anyway. then secondly the govt needs to start a quality education system that teaches how to challenge theories rather than how to cram stuff.
maybe they need to start boarding schools too. poor people who cant afford kids send their kids to these 2 number madrasas where they are mind fucked into machines that perform these acts. i saw videos of pakistani soldiers' heads getting chopped off and the act was performed on purpose by 14-16 year old kids!!!
that being said maybe the main issue is birth control! controversial i know, but if you can't afford a kid then don't have one! simple!
as far as our ullema are concerned, well there are always going to be people who want their personal agenda achieved through whatever means be it religion or whatever. those sort of people need not be given air time on our stupid channels!

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Shit happens, and then you die!!!

The Pious Muslims who don't recognize the Status of Shahadat of martyred Pakistani Soldiers"....like Mohammed Irfan and his coterie accept congratulations for "Kamra air Base Attack...and in general for attack on Shias in Giligit as well.....

It's a point in time where extremist sympathizers, the fundamentalists and religious leaning crowd has to define their allegiance whether they are with Pakistan or against Pakistan. Simple as that....
And if they are with Pakistan it better show up in their action more than talk. Otherwise, Pakistan Army has to take the decisive step and clean out the mess. Once for good!!! There will be collateral damage but that cancer which has already metastasized has to be eradicated otherwise it will take away Pakistan along with for good.

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kya bood-o-bash poocho ho purab ke sakino! hum ko gareeb jan ke, hans hans pukar ke...
jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -