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Old 10-31-2012, 11:02 PM
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New plans for Saudi Arabia: Bulldozing historic holy sites

The current controversy of the potential Saudi demolition of Riyad-al-Jannah and the graves of Islamic caliphs Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) and Hazrat Omar (RA) is one in a long line of projects that the world’s biggest exporter of crude oil has undertaken to erase Islamic heritage sites.
The Saudi obsession with everything concrete and steel is a cause of concern for Muslims around the world. The construction of enormous towers and skyscrapers, including the ghastly Mecca clock tower, tell us something about the future plans of the Saudis.


A 2011 report in The Independent titled “Mecca for the rich: Islam’s holiest site ‘turning into Vegas’” written by Jerome Taylor (who wrote the recent story about the planned Saudi destruction of Riyad-al-Jannah), says that the Saudis are planning to turn Mecca into a playground for the rich. They will do this by building sky scrapers and luxury hotels that cater to the rich Muslims coming from all over the world. The same newspaper reported back in April 2006 about the Saudi construction rampage in Islam’s holiest sites.
Systematic destruction of the holy sites and building hotels and resorts is being backed by the blessings of its religious clerics, who have taken upon themselves to erase sites whose significance to Islam is as great as any archaeological site pertaining to the early Christian or Jewish history in Jerusalem.


Such a work is being undertaken and not a voice is being raised. This is a cause of concern for Muslims around the world, especially if they are prone to delve into murderous rages over any slight offence to their religion, but choose to remain quiet when the very roots of early Islamic history are being erased (read: bulldozed).


However as it turns out, the Saudi kingdom seems to be on something more than destroying shrines and graves.
Even a cursory search reveals that the Saudis are embarking on real estate and renewable energy projects as they plan for the future post-2030. This is the period when it is feared that the supply of oil, which generates 86% of the kingdom’s revenue, might start to dwindle thus forcing the Saudis to import additional oil from other countries.


The Economist states that the rapid increase in demand for oil inside Saudi Arabia has increased by 37%. Moreover, 65% of its electricity is generated by the oil that it produces. For now, increase in oil price has caused the wealth of Saudis to soar, quite literally, and their construction of the Kingdom Tower is a testament to the money flooding in.


However the increase in oil consumption, the increasing American reliance on shale gas, the expectation that Canada and Mexico might become the new middle east. Moreover, the awareness of the fact that oil reserves would not last forever has led Saudi Arabia to consider alternate forms of revenue generation. These include real estate, Hajj (obviously), the banking sector and other renewable forms of energy.
Khalid al Falih, the president and CEO of Saudi Aramco, reflects the future strategy of the Saudis when he says that Saudi Aramco wants to transform from an oil and gas company to a ‘global energy and chemicals enterprise’. Apart from energy sources, the real estate sector is booming, thanks to the swelling population and the increase in tours by the increasingly affluent middle class of the Muslim world.


So how does the new course of Saudi economy relate to destruction of Islam’s holy sites? In this regard, my hypothesis is that the Saudis under the valid pretext of real state expansion are destroying the holy sites with the help of fanatical clerics who oppose reverence to any shrine or grave.
The real estate development and other modernisation projects can be undertaken anywhere in the kingdom, but it seems that the clerics are capitalising on this opportunity to erase the early history of Islam and increase their hold on the religion. Few countries have dared to raise voice against this heinous crime of the destruction of Islamic holy sites, fearing diplomatic repercussions that might arise. Yet we Pakistanis Muslims scream over the depiction of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) in the western media, burn buildings, kill people and block websites in protests but do not raise a single voice when the house of Hazrat Khadija (RA) is turned into a public toilet block, and when the Saudi Islamic affairs ministry declares that the green dome (of Masjid Nabwi) shall be demolished and the three graves flattened in the Prophet’s Masjid”.
The time to raise voice against this crime of titanic proportions is now! - TRIBUNE


Any confirmation on this, I haven't heard anything on this other then this!
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:15 PM
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Hypothesis is news now wow

Just like lifebuoy being sacked by LUMS due to Jamat-e-islami LOL

and then the balls to accuse right wing of coming down with conspiracies.

BTW lets assume they are doing to make profit of Hujj, so whats wrong with that? It is specifcally allowed in Quran

Al-Baqra; Verse 198

There is no sin on you if you seek the Bounty of your Lord (during pilgrimage by trading, etc.). Then when you leave 'Arafat, remember Allah (by glorifying His Praises, i.e. prayers and invocations, etc.) at the Mash'ar-il-Haram. And remember Him (by invoking Allah for all good, etc.) as He has guided you, and verily, you were, before, of those who were astray.
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:45 AM
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Don't know who the retard is , but they are actually expanding the Haram itself, and Making Madniah the biggest mosque in the world which will hosue 1.6 m worshippers. I don't see any vegas here!!
People should actually visit Makkah-Madinah onces and then speak. How come these non-muslim writers write soo much while they aren't even allowed there.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:35 AM
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don't know who the retard is , but they are actually expanding the haram itself, and making madniah the biggest mosque in the world which will hosue 1.6 m worshippers. I don't see any vegas here!!
People should actually visit makkah-madinah onces and then speak. How come these non-muslim writers write soo much while they aren't even allowed there.
are they really demolishing the dome? Or the graves?
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:55 AM
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[B]The the Saudi Islamic affairs ministry declares that “the green dome (of Masjid Nabwi) shall be demolished and the three graves flattened in the Prophet’s Masjid”.
i for one feel the grave flattening business is basically the wahabi saudi government forcing their brand of islam on everyone else!
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:05 AM
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are they really demolishing the dome? Or the graves?

Heck no :S They are just expanding the outer sides of it, not even touchig with the exsisting mosque. Seriously who even come up with such stuff ?


I honestly never read any articles relating to Makkah and Madinah in any other news paper then Arabnews, SaudiGazzte or alarabia! Cuz seriosuly how can I believe a word of a non-muslim writer who isn't even allowed in these cities ?


Yes, they are gonna be demolishing a couple of mosques but they have no other choice ! The number of pilgirms is increasing each year, they have to expand no other option!
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:16 AM
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The redevelopment is due to take place to the west of the existing mosque, which holds the tombs of Islam’s founder as well as his companions Abu Bakr and Umar.

Historic mosques in Madinah to be bulldozed - Construction - ArabianBusiness.com

the redevoplemtn with take place on that SIDE. No one is demolishing anything on that side. Seriously people are so lame.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:00 AM
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Heck no :S They are just expanding the outer sides of it, not even touchig with the exsisting mosque. Seriously who even come up with such stuff ?


I honestly never read any articles relating to Makkah and Madinah in any other news paper then Arabnews, SaudiGazzte or alarabia! Cuz seriosuly how can I believe a word of a non-muslim writer who isn't even allowed in these cities ?


Yes, they are gonna be demolishing a couple of mosques but they have no other choice ! The number of pilgirms is increasing each year, they have to expand no other option!
The highlighted one should have been the main point. But lemme just revisit this article came out in 2011 a yr later it is suddenly doing rounds in world media why it took 1 yr to become news?

2nd the mosques to be demolished were built in 7th century as per article, so pray tell me who they relate to Prophet PBUH time? "built on a place thought to be spot where Prophey PBUH led 1st eid" after 7 centuries they "thought" not knew.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:24 AM
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The highlighted one should have been the main point. But lemme just revisit this article came out in 2011 a yr later it is suddenly doing rounds in world media why it took 1 yr to become news?

2nd the mosques to be demolished were built in 7th century as per article, so pray tell me who they relate to Prophet PBUH time? "built on a place thought to be spot where Prophey PBUH led 1st eid" after 7 centuries they "thought" not knew.


Well you have a really valid point. Why is an year old article now circulating ? people just need reason to critisize. Just ask them how the heck will they accomodate the rising number of pilgrims each year ?

Acutally I don't really know if you have ever been to Madinah or no, but damn people do really absurd things their inside the mosque.

I mean when you go to pray salam, you aren't suppose to face the grave of Prophet Muhammad and pray! its forbidden, you have to face the oppisite side, you have to face teh qibla and then pray to ALLAH. But no, all desis just go on and start pryaing while facing towards his grave. the cops their litreally smack them to stop them, but they dont :S Some even start their salah facing his grave :S

And some are pure ass retarded. They would stand in the pathway and go on singing naats of owais raza qadri while 2-3 will provide the background music of ALLAH ALLAh they do! Seriously the cops then smack them out of that place :S


The reason why saudis just close eveyrthing historic is cuz of these reaosns, people go nuts over it ! :S


Like that pillar where Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used to give the friday sermon, it was highlighted first but then again peopel starting kissing it, licking it, praying to it! So they jsut build a huge pillar similar to others and no one knows which one it is! :S


Some people jump in the feet of the Imam-e-kabba ! the security has to kick them off ! Its really sad to see such things, the security and the planners do everything for a reason, they aren't stupid to just demloish everything.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:24 AM
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since nobody responded to me in the other thread, i'm going to post the same thing i wrote before over here.

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here is the problem. is it only holy sites that we should preserve? what about sites that are not holy but essential to the history of our great religion? shouldn't we stand up and protect these sites so that our children and their children can get a better understanding of where islam originated and retain that spiritual connection to saudi arabia. i mean a perfect example is cave hira. it's not really holy per say, not included in hajj or umrah rituals and at the end of the day is just a cave. certainly if expansion room was needed, few people would take offense to knocking down a cave on the mountains to create room. but this was the cave where the Prophet (pbuh) received quranic revelations, where we went to meditate, where he spent a big portion of his time. that in and of itself doesn't make it holy, but doesn't that make it worth protecting as an integral part of our religion's history? makkah and madinah are littered with these sorts of sites, and one of the beauties of pilgrimages to makkah and madinah is the opportunity to visit these sites, pray in the mosques surrounding the holy cities, walk in jannatul-baqi, and the list goes on and on. to allow for the destruction of these sites and to make excuses for it, to me, is tantamount to blasphemy. others may disagree, but that's how i feel.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:29 AM
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Well you have a really valid point. Why is an year old article now circulating ? people just need reason to critisize. Just ask them how the heck will they accomodate the rising number of pilgrims each year ?

Acutally I don't really know if you have ever been to Madinah or no, but damn people do really absurd things their inside the mosque.

I mean when you go to pray salam, you aren't suppose to face the grave of Prophet Muhammad and pray! its forbidden, you have to face the oppisite side, you have to face teh qibla and then pray to ALLAH. But no, all desis just go on and start pryaing while facing towards his grave. the cops their litreally smack them to stop them, but they dont :S Some even start their salah facing his grave :S

And some are pure ass retarded. They would stand in the pathway and go on singing naats of owais raza qadri while 2-3 will provide the background music of ALLAH ALLAh they do! Seriously the cops then smack them out of that place :S


The reason why saudis just close eveyrthing historic is cuz of these reaosns, people go nuts over it ! :S


Like that pillar where Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used to give the friday sermon, it was highlighted first but then again peopel starting kissing it, licking it, praying to it! So they jsut build a huge pillar similar to others and no one knows which one it is! :S


Some people jump in the feet of the Imam-e-kabba ! the security has to kick them off ! Its really sad to see such things, the security and the planners do everything for a reason, they aren't stupid to just demloish everything.
sorry but that is lame. if you can't control the crowd, the problem is not with the crowd it is with your security measures. these are all historic landmarks, and they should not be destroyed because saudi security is too lazy to do their job and keep people in order. 500 years from now people will be reading islamic history and will be wondering why we stood idly by while the essential aspects of our religion's history were destroyed by the same people that are declared custodians of the religion. please remember that these are not reversible decisions, once these sites are demolished they are demolished forever. people are laughing and making jokes about it and i think we are in a very dangerous situation.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:50 AM
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sorry but that is lame. if you can't control the crowd, the problem is not with the crowd it is with your security measures. these are all historic landmarks, and they should not be destroyed because saudi security is too lazy to do their job and keep people in order. 500 years from now people will be reading islamic history and will be wondering why we stood idly by while the essential aspects of our religion's history were destroyed by the same people that are declared custodians of the religion. please remember that these are not reversible decisions, once these sites are demolished they are demolished forever. people are laughing and making jokes about it and i think we are in a very dangerous situation.
They can control the crowd thats why they smack these morons. Thats why millions of ppl every yr in one place can go without any riots.

Total BS abt perserving historical sites. Essentials of our religion is Quran and Sunnah, dun wana follow that do we? when we talk abt lets implement sharia oh noooo no nooooo that is a no no but God forbid we change some historical site, historucal site ka achaar dalna hai?
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:05 AM
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sorry but that is lame. if you can't control the crowd, the problem is not with the crowd it is with your security measures. these are all historic landmarks, and they should not be destroyed because saudi security is too lazy to do their job and keep people in order. 500 years from now people will be reading islamic history and will be wondering why we stood idly by while the essential aspects of our religion's history were destroyed by the same people that are declared custodians of the religion. please remember that these are not reversible decisions, once these sites are demolished they are demolished forever. people are laughing and making jokes about it and i think we are in a very dangerous situation.

Exactly what cyborg said, Hajj each year goes by successfully alhumdulillah with any type of choas! do you think this is not an example of crowd control ?

What I don't understand is why can't you put forward a way of expansion where the mosques will stay ? What do they do, build Madinah part 2 100kms awy from the mosque ? Its not that they are doing this for fun, its being done cuz their is no other way to deal with it. The 2 holy mosques are the most important things. They are the ones that matter, so just to ease the hajj and praying , they have to sacrifice something. 30Bn riyals were given as compensation to those who's property was in the way of expansion. I don't not see any way how this can be termed as PROFIT. They are expanding for You and I. For the ever increasing number of pilgirms each year.

Its not easy to mange such a huge crowd with such prefection. People should appreciate whats being done and not be and arse about it.

And As @cyborg909 said , why is an year old article taking rounds NOW ?
Plus why are we even bothering to read something written by a person who hasn't even been in a 100 mile radius of that place ?

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They can control the crowd thats why they smack these morons. Thats why millions of ppl every yr in one place can go without any riots.

Total BS abt perserving historical sites. Essentials of our religion is Quran and Sunnah, dun wana follow that do we? when we talk abt lets implement sharia oh noooo no nooooo that is a no no but God forbid we change some historical site, historucal site ka achaar dalna hai?

Yaaar historical sites are actually that become a problem. Seriously How can you stop 100 people facing towards a tree and praying ? :S A tree which holds importance no doubt but isn't anywhere near as important as the qibla.
People actually licked that marked pillar. They had to cover it now cuz of the lameness people were doing. They actually now stopped people from comiting a sin!
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:33 AM
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They can control the crowd thats why they smack these morons. Thats why millions of ppl every yr in one place can go without any riots.

Total BS abt perserving historical sites. Essentials of our religion is Quran and Sunnah, dun wana follow that do we? when we talk abt lets implement sharia oh noooo no nooooo that is a no no but God forbid we change some historical site, historucal site ka achaar dalna hai?

Would it be then fair to see, it would be ok to build over the Prophet's grave/demolish the grave to make more room for pilgrims and people to pray in Masjid al Aqsa?

I'd really like to ask arabiannight this then..

There should be no issues doing that then right? Demolishing the Prophet's grave?
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:57 AM
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Would it be then fair to see, it would be ok to build over the Prophet's grave/demolish the grave to make more room for pilgrims and people to pray in Masjid al Aqsa?

I'd really like to ask arabiannight this then..

There should be no issues doing that then right? Demolishing the Prophet's grave?
If u want my personal opinion? And lemme emphasize its my personal opinion not a fatwa nor am encouraging anyone else to agree/follow me in any shape form whatsoever.

I personally, personally speaking of my persona alone have no issue with that.

At same time I recognize it would be a very emotional issue for millions and millions of ppl and for the sake of "dil_azari" I would have a problem with that as I had issue when Talibaan blew up Buddha's statues cuz they were kinda unique and it hurt lot of ppl's sentiment.

Now coming back to to topic, as I have been honest with u I hope u will be honest with me, so plz consider this: Al-Masjid an-Nabawi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

1 - original mosque: a rectangular enclosure of 30 m × 35 m (98 ft × 115 ft) at a height of 2 m (6 ft 7 in)

2 - Seven years later (629 AD/7 AH), the mosque was doubled in size to accommodate the increasing number of Muslims. The area of the mosque was enlarged by 20 m × 15 m (66 ft × 49 ft) and became almost a square 50 m × 49.5 m (160 ft × 162.4 ft).[citation needed


3 -
The mosque remained like that during the caliphate of Abu Bakr until the caliphate of 'Umar bin al-Khattab, who enlarged the area of the mosque to 3575 m2 and built more wooden columns.[citation needed]

4 - In 707, Umayyad Caliph Al-Walid ibn Abd al-Malik (705-715) replaced the old structure and built a larger one in its place, incorporating the tomb of Muhammad.

5 - Abbasid Caliph al-Mahdi (775-785) replaced the northern section of Al-Walid's mosque between 778 and 781 to enlarge it further.

6 - During the reign of the Mamluk Sultan Al Mansur Qalawun, a dome was erected above the tomb of Muhammad and an ablution fountain was built outside of Bab al-Salam (Door of Peace). Sultan Al-Nasir Muhammad rebuilt the fourth minaret that had been destroyed earlier. After a lightning strike destroyed much of the mosque in 1481, Sultan Qaitbay rebuilt the east, west and qibla walls.

7 - Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent (1520–1566) rebuilt the western and eastern walls of the mosque and built the northeastern minaret known as al-Suleymaniyya. He added a new mihrab (al-Ahnaf) next to Muhammad's mihrab (al-Shafi'iyyah) and placed a new dome covered in lead sheets and painted green above Muhammad's house and tomb

8 - Ar-Rawdah, the green dome over the center of the mosque, where the tomb of Muhammad is located was constructed in 1817C.E. during the reign of Mahmud II and painted green in 1839 C.E.. It is known as the (Green) Dome of the Prophet
Plz consider that the original mosque was completly removed and only the tomb was incorporated in the structure. Plz note from time of Hadrath Umar the continued expasion of mosque. Now plz tell me how much hitorical sites were lost and removed, how much original structure was completly wiped out, how much other historic sites were already gone long before House of Saud came into power. No one had any issues with it long ago and its a non-issue now. The original city of medina must have like 1000's of places which are considered historical which were lost to time due to normal course of city's expnasion. To say some might have been stayed is just a notion no one can say with surety this is the place he did this or that its just assumption.

So what the problem with expanding now. A 3rd rate piece of journalism is now wahee-e-ilahi for us?
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