Secular Pakistan: ‘Pakistanis should know Quaid’s Aug 11 speech by heart’ - PakMusic - The Pure Pakistani Forums | Pakistani Music Movies Dramas Desi Forums

adil_909 · #1 (**permalink**) 08-11-2012, 10:36 PM

LAHORE:

Speakers and the audience at a seminar Jinnah ka Pakistan (Jinnah’s Pakistan) on Saturday agreed that the Quaid had wanted to keep religion and state separate.

The seminar was organised by the Awami Party in Model Town to mark Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s August 11, 1947 speech.

Jamil Omar, the party’s general secretary, compared Jinnah’s August 11 speech with the Gettysburg address by Abraham Lincoln and Jawaharal Nehru’s August 15 speech. Every child in the United States and India knows these speeches by heart since it is part of their syllabi, Omar said, but in Pakistan this speech has been censored from the press and never included in school syllabi.

The people of Pakistan should know the speech by heart, he said, but the few who know about it have seen only a censored version of it. Omar said the speech had touched upon four important points: that nepotism will not be tolerated; that the government’s “first, second and last” responsibility is the people’s welfare; that citizens of all faiths will be treated equally; and that Pakistan is an independent and a self-sufficient country.

He said it was the third point which had led to the speech being blacked out. Jinnah had reiterated secularism and wanted to keep state and religion apart, said Omar. If these four points had been adhered to, he said, Pakistan could have been the best country in the world.

Wajahat Masood cited references from several books quoting from Jinnah’s speeches that promote a tolerant Pakistan where religious minorities had equal rights.

He said the Quaid had objected to slogan Pakistan ka matlab kia, La ilaha illallah. Quoting from Malik Ghulam Nabi’s book Daghon ki Bahar he said during his last address to All India Muslim League in December, 1947, a man had asked the Quaid if the slogan was the foundation of Pakistan’s ideology. The Quaid had told him that was not what Pakistan stood for, Masood said.

He said three articles of the national constitution needed to be expunged – Article 2 (a) upholding the Objectives Resolution; Article 227, which says that no law can be repugnant to Quran or Sunnah and Article 203 that gives the Federal Shariat Court the power to strike down any law passed by the parliament that is repugnant to Quran or Sunnah.

He also quoted Thomas Jefferson who had warned that if church was not separated from the state half the people will be hypocrites and the other half stupid. “We should not care if Jinnah was a mullah, a secularist or a pluralist; a nation-state by definition is a secular entity,” he said.

He ended his speech by quoting Jinnah, “In the course of time, Muslims will cease being Muslims; Hindus will cease being Hindus, not religiously, but politically.”

IA Rehman urged the participants to reflect on Jinnah’s views. He said Jinnah had wanted a government that worked for the citizens’ welfare and a country where everyone had equal rights.

After the speeches, the participants asked the party to demand that the clauses added to constitution during General Zia’s rule be removed and the Objectives Resolution declaring Pakistan an Islamic state be denounced. They also demanded that the federation should retain minimal authority and give more powers to the provinces.

Published in The Express Tribune, August 12th, 2012.

Secular Pakistan:

cyborg909 · #2 (**permalink**) 08-11-2012, 10:41 PM

oh man LOL i should hold my tongue

You Tube

listen about 1 min fwd where he explains why Muslims are different

You Tube

You Tube

adil_909 · #3 (**permalink**) 08-11-2012, 11:27 PM

so jinnah, a british educated elitst who could barely speak urdu, dressed in western apparel, drank alcohol, smoked cigars, kept pet dogs, and hardly ever offered namaaz wanted a country in which all that would be outlawed, and he himself would be the symbol of all that he did not want others to do? give me a break and spare me the indoctrination. everyone knows what kind of pakistan jinnah wanted, and if he could see the state we are in today, he'd be rolling over in his grave.

cyborg909 · #4 (**permalink**) 08-11-2012, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adil_909

so jinnah, a british educated elitst who could barely speak urdu, dressed in western apparel, drank alcohol, smoked cigars, kept pet dogs, and hardly ever offered namaaz wanted a country in which all that would be outlawed, and he himself would be the symbol of all that he did not want others to do? give me a break and spare me the indoctrination. everyone knows what kind of pakistan jinnah wanted, and if he could see the state we are in today, he'd be rolling over in his grave.

oh so now his own words are not enuff they ahve become indoctrination and yet we should forget all and just remember his one speech?

Oh hypocrisy thy name is

Ofcoz he would be rolling over his grave seeing how secularists trying to distort his message, I have posted his own speeches not of someone else.

Jinnah understood Islam better then anyone of his contemperories and he was clear in his thought what it entails to have an islamic state, problem wasn't Jinnah problem was and remains his nation

adil_909 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-11-2012, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyborg909

oh so now his own words are not enuff they ahve become indoctrination and yet we should forget all and just remember his one speech?

Oh hypocrisy thy name is

Ofcoz he would be rolling over his grave seeing how secularists trying to distort his message, I have posted his own speeches not of someone else.

Jinnah understood Islam better then anyone of his contemperories and he was clear in his thought what it entails to have an islamic state, problem wasn't Jinnah problem was and remains his nation

nope absolutely false. he was a modernist who understood the role of government and the importance of keeping religion separate from the business of the state. he wanted to create a homeland for muslims where people would be free to practice as much or as little as they wished, not a state in which people like himself would be branded kaafirs and hung from street lamps by mobs. a man's vision can be easily understood by how he lives his life. you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what kind of country a british educated elitst who could barely speak urdu, dressed in western apparel, drank alcohol, smoked cigars, kept pet dogs, and hardly ever offered namaaz would want pakistan to be. i'm not saying that's how he wanted all pakistanis to be, certainly not. but he did want a country in which there was no shame in having those attributes, that even people like that could proudly call themselves pakistanis. that is the difference and that is the tolerance that is missing in pakistan today. it's been hijacked by narrowminded conservatives who only see one vision, and then distort history to make their vision seem like the one jinnah had all along which is dishonest as best, and treasonous at worst.

cyborg909 · #6 (**permalink**) 08-11-2012, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adil_909

nope absolutely false. he was a modernist who understood the role of government and the importance of keeping religion separate from the business of the state. he wanted to create a homeland for muslims where people would be free to practice as much or as little as they wished, not a state in which people like himself would be branded kaafirs and hung from street lamps by mobs. a man's vision can be easily understood by how he lives his life. you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what kind of country a british educated elitst who could barely speak urdu, dressed in western apparel, drank alcohol, smoked cigars, kept pet dogs, and hardly ever offered namaaz would want pakistan to be. i'm not saying that's how he wanted all pakistanis to be, certainly not. but he did want a country in which there was no shame in having those attributes, that even people like that could proudly call themselves pakistanis. that is the difference and that is the tolerance that is missing in pakistan today. it's been hijacked by narrowminded conservatives who only see one vision, and then distort history to make their vision seem like the one jinnah had all along which is dishonest as best, and treasonous at worst.

thats not what he said in his speeches i suggest u listen them u might be then able to have informed opinion, he is very clear he doesn't want secular state

Problem is with you guys which is same with islamic parties you don't understand what Jinnah meant when he said Islamic state with minorities being pakistani too. Thats why in other thread I said Pakistan is a republic i.e rule of law not what parliment elected wants.

In an islamic state which is republic by definition the soverignity belongs to ALLAH and his laws will govern, the state is by law obliged to safeguard minorities in every aspect of life, their places of worship, freedom to worship, equal oppurnity in all state jobs except the head of state because the ppl who are head must follow the fundamentals of state, we cant ask a hindu to lead us in God's law a law that he doesn't recognize, but at same time state should allow all minorities to be equally participant in jobs of state even ministarial level (as pakistan do) furthermore they should have thier own representation which deals exclusively with thier own matters with state safeguarding thier interests.

adil_909 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-11-2012, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyborg909

thats not what he said in his speeches i suggest u listen them u might be then able to have informed opinion, he is very clear he doesn't want secular state

i have listened to them many times, and beyond listening to his speeches, i have read books about his life. i suggest you broaden your world view. jinnah wanted pakistan to be a conservative islamic state about as much as hitler wanted nazi germany to be a melting pot of different cultures.

cyborg909 · #8 (**permalink**) 08-11-2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adil_909

i have listened to them many times, and beyond listening to his speeches, i have read books about his life. i suggest you broaden your world view. jinnah wanted pakistan to be a conservative islamic state about as much as hitler wanted nazi germany to be a melting pot of different cultures.

Problem is with you guys which is same with islamic parties you don't understand what Jinnah meant when he said Islamic state with minorities being pakistani too. Thats why in other thread I said Pakistan is a republic i.e rule of law not what parliment elected wants.

In an islamic state which is republic by definition the soverignity belongs to ALLAH and his laws will govern, the state is by law obliged to safeguard minorities in every aspect of life, their places of worship, freedom to worship, equal oppurnity in all state jobs except the head of state because the ppl who are head must follow the fundamentals of state, we cant ask a hindu to lead us in God's law a law that he doesn't recognize, but at same time state should allow all minorities to be equally participant in jobs of state even ministarial level (as pakistan do) furthermore they should have thier own representation which deals exclusively with thier own matters with state safeguarding thier interests.

Anyway his words are dere I have provided you with link laikin aab ka masla yeh hai ke main na manoo

adil_909 · #9 (**permalink**) 08-12-2012, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyborg909

Problem is with you guys which is same with islamic parties you don't understand what Jinnah meant when he said Islamic state with minorities being pakistani too. Thats why in other thread I said Pakistan is a republic i.e rule of law not what parliment elected wants.

In an islamic state which is republic by definition the soverignity belongs to ALLAH and his laws will govern, the state is by law obliged to safeguard minorities in every aspect of life, their places of worship, freedom to worship, equal oppurnity in all state jobs except the head of state because the ppl who are head must follow the fundamentals of state, we cant ask a hindu to lead us in God's law a law that he doesn't recognize, but at same time state should allow all minorities to be equally participant in jobs of state even ministarial level (as pakistan do) furthermore they should have thier own representation which deals exclusively with thier own matters with state safeguarding thier interests.

Anyway his words are dere I have provided you with link laikin aab ka masla yeh hai ke main na manoo

you can sugar coat it however you want. at the end of the day, he wanted a country where everyone would be proud of being a pakistani, regardless of how religious or non-religious they were. he didn't want patriotism to be tied to religion. that's it. after that you can give it whatever name you want, secular vs islamic doesn't matter. that basic vision is not being fulfilled right now and that's the whole problem.

cyborg909 · #10 (**permalink**) 08-12-2012, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adil_909

you can sugar coat it however you want. at the end of the day, he wanted a country where everyone would be proud of being a pakistani, regardless of how religious or non-religious they were. he didn't want patriotism to be tied to religion. that's it. after that you can give it whatever name you want, secular vs islamic doesn't matter. that basic vision is not being fulfilled right now and that's the whole problem.

and ofcoz its fault of muslims

care to tell me why Bengali rioted in 1948 while he was still alive