Guys, I know this may be a long read but is well worth your time, Guaranteed!

Now I know this website has a lot of Pro-musharraf posters who are affiliated with MQM/PML-Q but most of these people post stuff here without knowing the facts about Pervez Musharraf and why most of our countrymen have turned against him. I find it disgusting that the forum even has a picture of Quaid-e-azam (our greatest leader) with PML-Q members and Musharraf, they dont deserve to be even in a picture anywhere near out great leader Jinnah...It hurts me to see that.

All I can tell you that I'm glad that the votes are decided from people all over our country not just an internet forum.



Here are some facts about Pervez Musharraf:

- Responsible for Kargil war...From May to July 1999, Pakistan and India were involved in the Kargil Conflict, an armed conflict between the two countries in the Kargil district of Kashmir. It was planned and executed during General Musharraf's term as the Pakistani Army Chief of Staff. Pakistani soliders suffered heavily (2000+ killed, 650 wounded), Note these are only Goverment stats and they always give lower stats, the economy of the country suffered greatly after this.



- Removed an elected Goverment of Pakistan and Imposed Martial law while arresting all the members of the goverment cabinet, This was right after the war when the country's was suffering enough already from the economy.



- On March 9, 2007, Musharraf suspended Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry. Chaudhry was demanded to resign, but he refused and was detained. Musharraf's moves sparked protests among Pakistani lawyers. On March 12, 2007, lawyers across Pakistan began boycotting all court procedures in protest against the suspension. In Islamabad, as well as other cities such as Lahore, Karachi and Quetta, hundreds of lawyers dressed in black suits attended rallies, condemning the suspension as unconstitutional. On July 20, the Supreme Court reinstated Chaudhry. It also dismissed misconduct charges that Musharraf filed against him. But Musharraf retaliated by declaring a state of emergency in November and finally deposed the chief justice and other senior colleagues.



- Lal Masjid Siege: Because of the standoff between the Pakistani government and Militants thousands of innocent people were killed, now im not saying whether the operation was right or wrong, but the fact is a lot of lives were lost because of Mr. Musharraf, it almost messed up our ties with China as many chinese Nationals were killed in the process. After the negotiations failed with the militants the troops were given the go ahead to storm the complex, which they did.

Codenamed "Operation Silence", the objective was to capture or kill the militants if they resisted - as well as rescuing all the students kept as hostages. Musharraf had been criticised for some of his inaction against the Lal Masjid. Over 3000 people were killed and 300+ injured, in this operation including Nationals of other country (China), Again note these are only the goverment stats.



- November 3, 2007 Musharraf declared emergency rule across Pakistan. He suspended the Constitution, imposed State of Emergency, and fired the chief justice of the Supreme Court. While addressing the nation on State Television, Musharraf declared that the state of emergency was imposed in the country. In Islamabad, troops entered the Supreme Court building, arrested the judges and kept them under detention in their homes. Troops were deployed inside state-run TV and radio stations, while independent channels went off air. Lawyers, Politicians were arrested while most TV channels were shutdown. He declared emergency because the Chief Justice was going to decide on his case of being President for the second term WHILE being a Chief of Army Staff at the same time, When the state of emergency was declared, Musharraf controversially held both positions of President and Chief of Army Staff.




- Corruption: When Musharraf came to power, he claimed that the corruption in the government would be cleaned up but like many analysts have noted during his regime the corruption got worse. According to a survey by Transparency International the first and second terms of Musharraf's administration as respectively more corrupt than the first and second terms of previous administrations led by Bhutto and Sharif, respectively. However, that survey also indicates that public opinion perceived the second terms of all three leaders as being more corrupt than their first terms, respectively. Musharraf's second term was perceived as being the most corrupt term of office among the those of the three leaders. According to a combined poll by Dawn News and CNN-IBN, a majority believe that corruption during this administration has increased.

An Asian Development Bank report on the state of the country during the 60th year of Independence describes it as a country with "poor governance, endemic corruption and social indicators that are among the worst in Asia". Later in 2007, his government cost national exchequer hundreds of millions of rupees to hire teams of expensive lawyers to represent his government in courts. In one such case regarding the privatization of Pakistan Steel Mills Corporation, whose worth was stated to be Rupees 600 billion, and which was sold out for mere Rupees 20.6 billions,[50] the government had spent Rupees 90 million (£900.000), with Sharifuddin Pirzada alone getting away with 6.6 million rupees (£66,000).


- The Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz of PML-Q (Musharraf's ally) was involved in several financial scandals, some of them being:

Steel Mills Case (The reason why Musharraf sacked the Chief Justice in March 2007):

In 2007, the privatization of the Pakistan Steel Mills by Aziz's government was challenged in the Supreme court. The apex court ruled against the government, noting that the sell off to a group associated with Arif Habib, former client and friend of Aziz, was done in "indecent haste". In 2008, the Chairman of Steel Mills, General Abdul Qayyum, during the privatization, who was also a long term friend of Pervez Musharraf told in a TV interview how the Mills was sold in throw away prices casting doubts on the entire bidding process.

Wheat Crisis

Towards the end of his tenure, his government cooked up wheat production figures, which forced the Export department to ease restriction on the export of surplus wheat. Later the figures proved to be fabricated, causing acute shortage of wheat in the country and resulting in the loss of billions of rupees to the national exchequer. His own colleagues, members of his cabinet, and party members blamed him for the scandal.

Energy Crisis

Since Nov 2007, the country started experiencing the worst of power breakdowns. It was later revealed that during Musharraf's stint in power, not a single megawatt of energy production was added to the existing system. Privatization of KESC was also blamed by the experts, where his government failed to look after that the new management ensures consumer rights. Result was a highly intermittent power supply to its consumers, with a two hour of breakdown followed by each hour of supply.


Now having said all of that, no politician is innocent most of them are corrupt, but atleast they dont get so many people killed in the process, I bet you 100% that in the 9 years Musharraf has ruled, he has taken more money from the people of Pakistan than anyone else in History.





All the problems being faced right now (Electricity/Load shedding, Water, Wheat, Rice, Other Food prices, are because of the failure of previous goverment yet the guys who are affiliated with the previous goverment say that "What has this Goverment done?" Well it has been formed since March, so still been a few months, and yet you critise it but dont talk about what the previous Goverment of PML-Q has left the state of Pakistan too, the worst state ever. The economy is at its worst rate and it will likely go down. If there is anyone to blame its the previous Goverment for the current state of our country.

well, the verdict of the ppl is crystal clear. but hey, in the words of some of our pro-musharraf posters here, the oublic is illiterate, so in other words, their opinion doesnt count.

funny thing is, thats exactly what the colonialists thought of the ppl they colonized.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I am sure what give here is pretty much accurate but the conclusions that you have made are a little off, however I will not go into much detail now (in bed at an awkward angle, can't type much, will post tomorrow if the thread is still here and hasn't been hijacked to discuss imaginary girlfriends and made-up relationship problems) ..

but for now, I support Musharraf because ALL other choices in Pakistan's political scene are nothin but a bunch of bloodsucking, nauseatingly hypocritical full of double standard lying vultures who don't give a rat's tail about people and are constantly running their agendas behind the cloak of anti-musharraf campaign and judges ..who cares what judges are appointed?

cont..

- Kargil was not his fault. We lost Kargil in the office not on the mountains.

- No law is more important that Pakistan ands its sanctity.

- XCJ issue is highly debatable and since the new parliement is there, they can decide on what is right or wrong.

You wikipedia postings hold less value as most of these things have been discussed in various threads amongst the forums.

Read them and you might learn more than wikipedia.

Last time i checked there were hardly a few MQM supporters. Mostly ppl here are progressive Pakistanis with views based on events and history rather than political bias.

Many ppl including me support Musharaff for the good steps he has taken, although everyone does agree everything he has done wasnt right. There have been major and drastic failures too. That said and done the time Pakistan faced after 9/11 was also the trickiest. Even though now is time for him to move on and let others try their bit.

Last but not least it is an undeniable fact majority of our voters are illiterate. That is why we cannot get out of this stigma of betting on the same horse with a different jockey on top.

__________________
“Be careful what you wish for, you might actually get it.”

y do paki ppl appreciate the leaders who r the biggest lutaray of pak, who take illlegal control of lands of poor ppl???? when a leader who did really great things for pak, y cant u appreciate it??? instead of being a hater, appreciate the fact that he wasnt a lutera!

well, the events of kargil are hotly contested, afaaqkhan, so youre hardly in a position to pronounce anthing declarative on them.

Yeah it seems like its you against the world here...

It is well known that Kargil war happened because of Musharraf, The prime minister himself wasn't being informed or involved in the situation on the Kargil War. The economy suffered badly after this, and then Musharraf declared martial law. Your really beating a dead horse on this one by supporting him despite his actions in the past, Musharraf himself said that he will LEAVE if his ALLIES are beaten in the election, yet he doesn't resign.

You are flaming me for the wikipedia text, but are you actually denying that any of this didn't happen? Please enlighten me, what in my original post was wrong, those are all facts. When the results of the elections were there you call those people illiterate, yet when they voted for PML-Q in 2002, they weren't illiterate? Every single thing that I have said in the original post is true THAT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE are you denying that yes/no?

Can you tell me who is to blame for the wheat, electricity and economy crisis? Please dont dodge this post, I would love to hear your say on that!

When people vote for PML-Q/Musharraf its OK, but when they dont "they are all illiterate".

"CJ issue is highly debatable and since the new parliement is there, they can decide on what is right or wrong."

Yeah they sure can because the previous goverment lost its popularity after this issue, and even the senior members of PML-Q such as Mushahid Hussain and Sheikh Rashid admitted Musharraf was wrong to suspend the Chief Justice. Now they are saying they will support the re-instatement of the CJ (Mushahid said on Capital Talk). The party is splitting apart anyway...Some have joined PPP (Wattoo, and his 3 MNA's), Some have joined PML-N, it shows how loyal these guys were to Musharraf, they just wanted ministries. Even there is a Forward Block formed by some 16 MNA's.

Musharraf doesn't even want to leave gracefully...

Is anyone around here authoritative enough to speak for the nation?

I dont think so.

If you put the facts on one side, read what happened in Siachen. As even mentioned on the particular thread.

AliNyC i will respond to these points shortly.

__________________
“Be careful what you wish for, you might actually get it.”

well, the nation has spoken for itself. read the gallup pakistan poll plus the other polls about musharraf's low popularity among the masses.

Yeah Musharraf has done really good things for the country:

Ruined economy
Suspended Chief Justice
Declared Martial Law as Chief of Army
Declared Emergency as a President (Illegal one too)
His party is responsible for all the wheat and electricity crisis.

Please read the original post before commenting...It honestly saddens me when people STILL support this guy after all that has happened in the 8 years of his rule.

The funny thing is if PML-Q had won elections they would have said something different but since they got defeated badly it was:

"The people who vote are illiterate"

Everyone is wrong, and Musharraf is right according to them...They represent 54 seats out of 342 in the National Assembly...and from those 54, 16 have formed a forward block, some have left and joined PPP and PML-N.

Seriosuly dude just STFU! we all know where you are coming from.

This majority of this forum is exactly like what Fox News is towards the Republicans...

Yes you are right, actually they are all worst than fox. They are demagogues who just cant realize the truth and reality, either they are stupid or they know the truth but just ignore it out of stubbornness.

P.S: The days of enemy of Pakistan are almost over. He must be hanged, and Inshallah he will.

What a load of bullshit! Where did you get the casualty figure? From your Indian friends? Under 600 Pakistani Army troops died in the conflict. If 2000 had died, it would have been hard to hide

Nawaz Sharif, being the tool that he is, declared in an Indian newspaper that Pakistan lost 4000 soldiers. He did not care about the dignity of his country, he only cared about making Musharraf look bad. What did this ganja idiot know about the operation? He had no idea what was going on back in 99 when he was prime minister. This is why he ran to his master in Washington begging him to pressure Mushy to withdraw. How can this idito have any idea on how many Pakistanis died? And yes, please tell me what your source for the casualty figure is.

And btw, Pakistan was still in control of many Indian posts when Washington pressured Pakistan. Only a month or so later, it would have snowed and made it impossible for the Indians to regain them.

You neglected to mention 1 little fact. That the Prime Minister tried to murder a plane load of people.

My grandfather, who I loved and respected very much, was a lawyer but he would never have politicized the issue like people like Aitazaz Ahsan did. Anyway, I feel the lawyers and anyone who else who wants to has a right to protest and should be allowed to.

I suppose Nawaz Sharif would have sent in a unit of supermen ninjas to silently kill all the terrorists without hurting any innocent people
Where do you pull this shit from? 61 militants and 23 students were killed.

Thanks for the history lesson. Now please recall what Nawaz Sharifs thugs did to the Supreme court and also see what the elected government is doing to Geo now.
Please show me links to these so called polls and reports.How come I've never heard of them?
And I can show you a million reports by world renowned organizations praising advances made by his government. What's your point? Want me to show you what world organizations said about the government in the 90s?

Big deal. Hardly the first time this thing happened. Most contracts given in the US for the Iraq war go to the buddies of Dick Cheyney. Again, big deal, and you're talking like none of your favorite politicians ever did it.

Yeah maybe, but hardly a big deal. This effects of this blunder were short-lived.

Compare the figures of power stations constructed during Mushy's era with that of BB's and Nawaz Sharifs.

The PML-Q government has brought in record FDI to Pakistan, it has taken Pakistan's economy to new heights, more progress has been made in education than all of the previous governments combined.

I am not affiliated with any politician or any party, but I can clearly see who has done what.