if there were a post of the month award on this forum, i'd nominate this post for the award

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Who brought this labelling on their tongues ? You or me ? Was it not you calling me wahabhi. Where as I Never call myself anything like that Becuase I believe there is no such sect or religion like that. Yes like many other scholars whos works I take from Like Ibn taymiyah, Shiekh Muhammad Ibn abdl Wahabh, Shiekh Muhammad Nasir-ud-deen Al-Albani, Sheikh bin baaz and their students currently alive today including a few others like Shiekh yahya al-hajuoori but then you wont reconise them.

So I ask you again why are you putting labels on me which is something you wont even do it for your self

Its good that you release what is the true message of Islam. And you dont reject it like the other members.

First of all, it is important you have to point out to people who are doing shirk. but if they do not want to correct their then it is very improtant that you draw a clear distingtion between thm and you: why and what are they doing wrong. I will get you the evidence for this from sunnah of Prophet PBUH.

First of all there is no such thing as wahabhism etc so it is better to refrain from it.

Secondly you are confusing and mixing scholars with Govt. Scholars don't rule the country, the Govt do. Times have changed and it is not anymore like it used to be in the time of Abu bakr and other khalifs. where they were considered as the learned scholars and the Govt as well. i.e, schoalrs ruling the state.

Now if the Govt wants to do : like you said in bahrain example, how can you then blame the scholars for it. The Govt is above everything and basically does whatever they want. Why drag scholars into it

Now I dont believe TTP and other terrorist groups such punjabi taliban, BLA, etc are funded by saudi Govt. Rather they are funded and supported by CIA and Raw.
Nothing to do with the scholars again.

Now Coming to the scholars :

All the above scholars that I mentioned and many more even in Madina Islamic University clearly forbid muslims from joining any revolutionary groups whether they are terroist organistions such as TTP, Punjabi Taliban,BLA or Militia Parties of Karachi or arab springs. Becuase we are taught that this is against the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

Once Umar ibn Khattab become a Muslim: this news shook the Kuffar-e-Makkan leadership and establish/Govt. He alone was enough to take down the whole kuffar Govt in Makkah becuase everyone used to fear Umar ibn Khattab.

The Prophet PBUH has a clear chance to overthrow Kuffar-e-Makkans once and for all. But what did the Prophet PBUH do ? revolt or have patience and Migrate ?

So that's any form of revoult against any Govt (whether Muslim or non-muslim) is forbidden.

So what to do if you can't revoult then ? Then thats another topic relating to have patience and trying to make the ruler understand about his ways from the sunnah and incouraging him to return to the correct ways and have sabar.

I even gave you a video to what where the student of knowledge explains how this extremism favour terroistic idealogy came about in exsistence starting from one jew (in the times of Hazrat Usman) to usama bin laden and branching out in to many other groups.

Our scholars even refuted OBL in 1996 ! I bet you didn't knew that ? Wiat but 9/11 happend like 5 years after ??? you what .. I know ....I was shocked as well before I used to think like you.

And not just OBL but many other groups and Militants.

Did you knew that before americans put out a bounty on Anwar awalalaki (the yemeni born american preacher) our scholars refuted him in 2009 ! there! beating the americans by another 2 years !

I mean how many lies you can bring against the scholars. At least thorra research to kar lo na

A good point will be that video that I posted in HH section and then gave it to you as well.





If the Govt is suck up americans then the scholars have no fault in that. Similarly schoalrs in Pakistan can't do anything when zardari allowed americans to do whatevey they wish in Pakistan.

Yes the early years of saudi Govt should have thought about going into oil deals with americans and its effects on later years of geo-political situation.

But then in hind sight everyone can make good decisions, like the same can be said of musharraf handing pakistan on a platter to Americans.

I already explained you a lot in my PMs to you about 2 or 3 months back. I am not sure why are bringing this up again and again.

The schoalrs have forbidden invovlement in any type of revolution, whether it be militant, terrorist, over throwing Govt, creating unrest and troubles within the nation to upset Govts etc etc.

This is very clear like day from night. And to talk about Jihad. There is no such thing as Jahid going on around the world at the moment. Look at kashmir ....why did ISI and Militray send in gruops to attack Indian army ??? And as a result the indian army started comitting mass genocide on muslims in that region!!

IS that jihad ? or militancy by your own ISI ?? Please dont tell me the Saudi GOvt was involved in it

And as a result you see indians start infiltrating balouchistan. and you call that saudi invovlment .... dont know whether to laugh or bang my head against the wall.

Yes the saudi Govt is not bound by the scholars and they have a mind of their own just like zardari , nawaz shraif or BB.

you say financially supporting the rise of Wahabi militancy. :-

Where ? any evidence ? .........the even schoalrs reject such things. TTP, BLA punjabi taliban, haqanis , MQM and karachi Miltant gruops :- is this what you call supporting militancy ? yeah right

For the past 30 years ...has not the saudi Govt been donating oil to pakistan ??? ( i say donate , because at the cut rate prices they had been supplying oil to pakistan can only be donation)

But your own corrupt Govt (nawaz and BB) never passed down those price cuts to the public instead kept increasing ? Yeah that was also fault of Saudi Arabia.

not only that but consistently been supporting pakistan financially but Pakistan's very own corrupt mafia usurps that money. And you blame it on Saudi Govt ?

I am not putting any labels. The labels were put by Saudis that they are the better ones than rest of the Muslim World that 'They are the one who ONLY knows what ISLAM is'. They are the one who went with their Wahabism and spread it through Madarsahs and financial funding. Don't mistaken me that I put the divide and tag on them. They are the one who started the business of hatred by detesting Sufism, Shias and other sects of Islam. They are the one who started it, defying the message of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) given in Last Sermon, "Kisi Ajmi ko kisi Arbi per bartari nahi, aur kisi Arbi ko kisi Ajmi per Bartari Nahi". Why did they feel so insecure about their POWER politics in Ummah?

I appreciate the links and videos you sent me. I appreciate the fact that some scholars are coming to the understanding of greater benefit to humanity instead of propogation of expansionist agenda.

But I don't buy that BS that the Ulema and Scholar are separate from GOVT. They are the one who instigate that whole spread of Wahabism in the past, and then of course GOVT. has to look into it's own interest as well. Hence it got out of control. But Mullahism, Wahabism is preached and spread by Wahabi Scholars and like minded Ullemas. Just like in IRAN the Shora council is at the back of every GOVT. decision, the Wahabi Mullahs are at the back of all Saudi Govt. decision.

And please don't get me started on how sincere they are with Pakistan regarding aid and rest. Thy provide hiding to a convict Nawaz Sharif only to have him come back and leach Pakistan even more. Why didn't they question him about where he got all the money to establish a steel mill in Riyadh. They are notorious in giving refuge to all defamed leaders of muslim world including Eidi Amin as well. On what grounds are you providing refuge to such mass murderers? Then comes the point about all aid. Correct your facts, that Saudia hesitate so greatly to give aid to flood victims in Pakistan that media has to embarrass them into giving it. They came out in the end to help Pakistan recoup with the natural disaster, where as US was the first one who provide monetary and technical assistance to Pakistan. More recently in Gayari sector Siachen, US also offered Pakistan with technical assistance in cleaning the wreckage and debris at the site where land slide occurred. I am not defending US role, I am just balancing both attitudes. I was least expecting Saudia to play politics in times of need and yet they didn't refrain from doing so...and that too to a country like Pakistan who they have always used as the breeding ground for the spread of their extremist ideology. Moreover, I know how these Jahil Buddoun treat Pakistanis in Saudia, degrade them as third class citizens. You talk about Racism in US and West, there is no greater Racism against muslims anywhere in the world then in their very own Saudia Arabia. You are just in denial that Saudis are some sort of big Prophetic flag bearers, and saviors of Islam.

Why do I have to provide proof to you to establish their links to all militants outfits, when it's all crystal clear. All the militant activist that were captured from Pakistan have links to Saudia Arab. One other common denominator was the fact that they were ALL WAHABIS. Why can't we portray a peaceful version of Islam in the world...because Wahabis will be in strong disagreement on it. LeJ and SSP get funding from Saudia to annihilate Shias across Pakistan. No one needs to show you proof of that, it's every where and well established phenomenon. One only needs to open eyes and start looking into reality instead of getting lost in whimsical thoughts, that's what I say.

P.S. I don't want you to label any Kalima-go a Kafir like you said about Adil. This is insulting to any muslim and moreover Allah (SWT) didn't give us any right to determine who Kafir is and who is not. Only difference is Taqwa and if you think you are better than rest then adopt Taqwa instead of hatred against others. Lastly, don't be dismissive and condescending in your argument. It is only going to pose you as the weaker one.

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kya bood-o-bash poocho ho purab ke sakino! hum ko gareeb jan ke, hans hans pukar ke...
jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -

I dont agree. Govts all around the muslim world are least interested in Islam. Why would thay have any stake in religion ? If they wish they would like their countries to become atheist or secular. Would be much easier for them to rule their countries according to their desires : best ex, Pakistan.

Again Nawaz sharif's asylum or his acquiring of wealth has nothing got to with the scholars.

The man responsible was in power to hold nawaz sharif for any discrepensices in his wealth acquisation was Musharraf. It was his choice to let go Nawaz sharif.

Again, since the asyulm deal was not brokered involving schalors hence scholars did not have any position to question nawaz sharif about any steel mill.

Eidi Amin ? I don't know who he is. And I dont know who is Saudi Govt providing refuge to. Again, these are the laws of governance. And scholars do not have governmental authroithy or power. You should know this better.

About the flood aid. It was not just the saudis, but all the Govts including US and Britain who said there is no point giving aid to Govt of Pakistan for flood assistance becuase he is corrupt. And any Govt wishing to give aid would directly give aid to that said Government. Not any NOGs. Thats the protocol. Again, An educated man like you should know better.

Again Scholars do not have the power to run state affairs whether internal or foriegn. However I used to go the website and a flood relief charity was being done through there. So the students of the scholars did do their effort in the bid. Noting got to do with the Govt again.

And as you said yourself Sauids decided to play politics. So according to your own words you are affirming that it is not the scholars. Becuase Islamic Scholars (Ulema) in any muslim country including Saudi Arabia have no power in running the affairs of politics. Rather majority of them prefer the keep away.

Now your claim of Saudi racism or harsh treatment towards expat pakistani community. Can you please show me that 100% of pakistanis are practicing Islam upon Quran and Sunnah ? Was not Usama bin ladin from Saudi Arabia ? Were his followers not from Saudia Arabia ? Was not Osama bin laden and his supporters refuted and banned by the schoalrs of the same reign ? Is not TTP from Pakistan ? Is not BLA from Pakistan ? Are not Punjabi Taliban from Pakistan ?

Are their not hate and race crimes against minorities in Pakistan ? And did I claim the all of saudi Arabia is upon Quran And Sunnah ? Are you not labelling your lies upon me from your desires and whims in trying to look down on me ?

The view that I hold is : not every muslim is practing upon Quran and Sunnah, which every country you take. I have also met practcing Muslim Saudi citizens who are nothing but nice and respectful to me. and I treat them in the equivalent manner.

I also had a very bad experience with a Pakistan Practicing muslim who started to treat me worse than he would treat a kaffir! why ? Becuase I decided that I am not going to Blindly follow imam abu hanifa ...but will consult all the Imams and scholars and then choose what is closer to the sunnah of Prophet PBUH ?? That pakistani guy was 5 times namze , reading quran with qirat ! a proper practicing muslim. And thats the way he treated me ??

So you see, you have good and bad everywhere.

And if you and adil really beleive in what you said in the last 2 paragraphs then look at the posts back and tell me who started this labelling ? you guys or me ? Just try to be honest to yourself, you guys owe it to yourselves.

You are dogmatic and chose not to accept the reality. Hence no point of trying to show you one. Govt of Iran and Saudia Arabia are strictly run under the influence of their Religious Philosophy. You want to stay blind about it then I cannot do much. It's your ill informed choice.

And once again you are not the one who can decide who is following Quran and Sunnah, who is Muslim or not? Allah (SWT) didn't give you that authority and hence you should refrain from doing so. The sect you sympathize with, if they consider themselves better than rest and treat rest of the muslim world as not following Islam then I will have a problem with them. I will not buy any superior ideology presented by Wahabi scholars against muslims of rest of the world.

The Saudi scholars may have condemned all the newly formed militant networks but the FACT STILL REMAIN INTACT that it's their extremist religious PHILOSOPHY that created the MILITANTS at first place. There is a need to revert from that extremist jingoist ideology which is nothing but a mess of superiority complex. I will denounce that philosophy in any form and in any position. It is the root cause of divide among the muslims across the world. You choose to disagree that's your opinion, I am not forcing anything on you.

And Imam Abu Hanifa's followers are more than 80% of present muslim world. You need to check facts before trying to act all smart. He is the most respected of all Imams and refuting him is just blatant ignorance. But again, that's your superiority complex making you do things of such epic ignorance.

And no.....me or anyone else did not started tagging anyone. It's your so called holy sect that started tagging themselves as above any other muslim. As better than rest of the muslims. Exactly opposite of what Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) preached, so why would I buy their non-sense when it is essentially started from this 'superiority' bull crap.

All I want them is GTFO of Pakistan and Pakistan's affairs. Stop influencing minds of Pakistani youth with extremist ideology and stop funding militants outfits in Pakistan. If they are so in love with their philosophy keep it at their home and preach it to their youth, not Pakistanis or Sudanis or Yemenis. Every muslim country is affected by Wahabi influence today, and that is such a shame. Instead of uniting the muslim world, the Wahabis done a great job of dividing them. Well done.

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kya bood-o-bash poocho ho purab ke sakino! hum ko gareeb jan ke, hans hans pukar ke...
jis ko falak ne loot ke veeran kar diya, hum rehne walay hain usi ujray dyar ke -

As long as don't point the finger at me on day of judegement I have no problem in what you decide for yourself provided that I tried my best to explain you to return to the path of the pious predecessors (which I may have failed or sucessed or atleast tried...atleast in the PMs sent to you) - shown by the following hadith found in Bukhari and Muslim :-

The best of people are those living in my time. Then come those who follow them, and then come those who follow them. Those will be followed by a generation whose witness is sometimes true, sometimes false.


[ Muslim, “Fada’il al-Sahaba,” 212; Bukhari, “Fada’il al-Ashab ]

all the best.